old trials fanatic Posted June 23, 2007 Report Share Posted June 23, 2007 (edited) OK how longs a piece of string. Bought a standardish TY250 twinshock off ebay as a "project" standby bike for when the others are W.I.P. and i want a ride. OK shes not pretty but doesnt owe me a lot and mostly all there. Now i've measured the wheelbase and it's 50" there's 13.5" ground clearence and it rides and steers fine. So is it worth the hassle and effort of cutting and shuting the frame to lift the engine a la Majesty? Edited June 23, 2007 by Old trials fanatic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy m Posted June 23, 2007 Report Share Posted June 23, 2007 Looks like somebody has already slightly laid down the r shocks for you. Compare the top mounts to other TY250 s on ebay. May be different for various years, I am sure Woody will confirm? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bikespace Posted June 23, 2007 Report Share Posted June 23, 2007 Looks like somebody has already slightly laid down the r shocks for you. Compare the top mounts to other TY250 s on ebay. May be different for various years, I am sure Woody will confirm? Was going to say that the top shock mounting was the greatest change. We did it to our Ty's before we got majesty's and always made a big difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotty Posted June 23, 2007 Report Share Posted June 23, 2007 Mmmmm! thats wierd my majesty's wheelbase is 51" from spindle to spindle! i think the std TY 250 Is 52" but dont quote me on this! also im sure the ground clearance is 13 1/2" on my bike, this might have been acheived by moving the rear shocks down on the bike you have! if the engine was higher set i'd said it was a majesty! try it! it might ride really well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old trials fanatic Posted June 23, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2007 Mmmmm! thats wierd my majesty's wheelbase is 51" from spindle to spindle! i think the std TY 250 Is 52" but dont quote me on this! also im sure the ground clearance is 13 1/2" on my bike, this might have been acheived by moving the rear shocks down on the bike you have!if the engine was higher set i'd said it was a majesty! try it! it might ride really well? Only rode it round the garden so far but even with the knackered front forks it rides and handles really nice. Thats why i was wondering if it was worth modding the frame. Somebodys definately been at the frame already. You can turn with it right on the lock stops. Gearing needs lowering as it's on 10/41 at the moment and needs to be a tad lower IMHO but other than that feels fine. Going to make a plate and mount wider footrests a bit lower and back but thats just personal preference. Generally feels like a less twitchy version of the James. Not surprising really as thats 50" wheelbase as well. Think i'll leave it as it is just cosmetically give it a make over with a few tucks and tweaks here and there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotty Posted June 23, 2007 Report Share Posted June 23, 2007 Mmmmm! thats wierd my majesty's wheelbase is 51" from spindle to spindle! i think the std TY 250 Is 52" but dont quote me on this! also im sure the ground clearance is 13 1/2" on my bike, this might have been acheived by moving the rear shocks down on the bike you have!if the engine was higher set i'd said it was a majesty! try it! it might ride really well? Only rode it round the garden so far but even with the knackered front forks it rides and handles really nice. Thats why i was wondering if it was worth modding the frame. Somebodys definately been at the frame already. You can turn with it right on the lock stops. Gearing needs lowering as it's on 10/41 at the moment and needs to be a tad lower IMHO but other than that feels fine. Going to make a plate and mount wider footrests a bit lower and back but thats just personal preference. Generally feels like a less twitchy version of the James. Not surprising really as thats 50" wheelbase as well. Think i'll leave it as it is just cosmetically give it a make over with a few tucks and tweaks here and there stick a majesty tank on it! seen the one on majesty moto but that seems dear to me! bearing in mind its made in fiberglass!!! yes do the footrest conversion! got mine from trail and trials, had weld some large nuts to the bottom chassis tubes as my wern't threaded! some ty250's are from std! also go 10/44 gearing makes hell of a difference! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy m Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 Did anyone actually work out what the frame mods were when the motor was raised in the Yamaha frame ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 About 2" taken out of the front down tubes and the rear tubes that go up from the footrests to the front/rear of the seat. This lifts the entire engine cradle upwards by that amount. The tube that runs under the frame's top tube needed a piece cut out of it just before the toolbox to clear the sparkplug/cap and the exhaust had to have a piece cut out to reduce its height to allow for the engine being raised. The airfilter to carb rubber was now a really tight fit and rubbed on the rear top engine mount as the engine was closer to the airbox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy m Posted July 4, 2007 Report Share Posted July 4, 2007 Thanks Woody, had my eye on a TY 250 non runner on ebay reached its reserve at Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody Posted July 4, 2007 Report Share Posted July 4, 2007 Having had a ride on a standard TY250 recently, for the first time, I was surprised at how nice it felt as all I've ever heard about them is negative. I know the front forks are under sprung and under damped from new and the rear shocks were useless on this particular bike, but the general feel of the chassis and the steering/handling was good. Engine was quite responsive too as the flywheel weight had been removed. I remember a Godden framed 250 Majesty that I owned briefly about 15 years ago and the engine was awful, flat as a pancake and no torque - which is why I always accepted the negative comments about the standard TY250. It must have been fitted with one of the heavier weights which killed it. Didn't keep it long enough to find out. I think if I was going to start with a standard TY and look to make improvements I'd forget raising the engine as they did on the Majesty. The standard bike has enough ground clearance and in my opinion doesn't need any more. It's debatable how much of an improvement it would make, especially as no-one riding one now is going to throw it up the same sections as they were ridden on in their time, sections in today's classic trials are nowhere near as tough as the National or Centre trials from that era. It's also an awful lot of work for how much gain?? I think I'd just do the shock repositioning, revalve the front forks (personal preference this as some people are happy with them, some aren't) reposition the footrests and 320 the motor as that sorts it out power-wise without any doubt. Contrary to what is sometimes said, the 320 doesn't need to be an arm-wrenching firework, they can be very soft and tractable but torquey enough to pull any gear. It's a pretty simple conversion too. Sammy Miller front pipe and WES exhaust (mate has one fitted to his 320 Majesty and it sounds superb - mine sounded like a bag of s**t with one fitted, don't know why but that's just the sort of luck I have... every other one I've heard sounds good) A mini or full size Majesty tank could be fitted to get the look - Craig Mawlam has either I think. I'd ride it like that and then think about maybe lengthening the swingarm a touch, depending on how it felt, it may not need it, but they are a short bike and a bit twitchy. On climbs, especially with the 320, they can be a bit front light, slightly longer swingarm helps with that and stability. They are very similar to an Ossa, as you'd expect as the Yam and MK1 Ossa share pretty much the same wheelbase, on the MK2 Ossa, which was after Mick had gone to Yamaha, the swingarm was lengthened by 1.25" If you can get a TY250 for for a resonable price I think a nice competitive bike can be made for a fraction of the cost of a Majesty or TLR etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old trials fanatic Posted July 4, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 4, 2007 (edited) Having had a ride on a standard TY250 recently, for the first time, I was surprised at how nice it felt as all I've ever heard about them is negative. I know the front forks are under sprung and under damped from new and the rear shocks were useless on this particular bike, but the general feel of the chassis and the steering/handling was good. Engine was quite responsive too as the flywheel weight had been removed. I remember a Godden framed 250 Majesty that I owned briefly about 15 years ago and the engine was awful, flat as a pancake and no torque - which is why I always accepted the negative comments about the standard TY250. It must have been fitted with one of the heavier weights which killed it. Didn't keep it long enough to find out.I think if I was going to start with a standard TY and look to make improvements I'd forget raising the engine as they did on the Majesty. The standard bike has enough ground clearance and in my opinion doesn't need any more. It's debatable how much of an improvement it would make, especially as no-one riding one now is going to throw it up the same sections as they were ridden on in their time, sections in today's classic trials are nowhere near as tough as the National or Centre trials from that era. It's also an awful lot of work for how much gain?? I think I'd just do the shock repositioning, revalve the front forks (personal preference this as some people are happy with them, some aren't) reposition the footrests and 320 the motor as that sorts it out power-wise without any doubt. Contrary to what is sometimes said, the 320 doesn't need to be an arm-wrenching firework, they can be very soft and tractable but torquey enough to pull any gear. It's a pretty simple conversion too. Sammy Miller front pipe and WES exhaust (mate has one fitted to his 320 Majesty and it sounds superb - mine sounded like a bag of s**t with one fitted, don't know why but that's just the sort of luck I have... every other one I've heard sounds good) A mini or full size Majesty tank could be fitted to get the look - Craig Mawlam has either I think. I'd ride it like that and then think about maybe lengthening the swingarm a touch, depending on how it felt, it may not need it, but they are a short bike and a bit twitchy. On climbs, especially with the 320, they can be a bit front light, slightly longer swingarm helps with that and stability. They are very similar to an Ossa, as you'd expect as the Yam and MK1 Ossa share pretty much the same wheelbase, on the MK2 Ossa, which was after Mick had gone to Yamaha, the swingarm was lengthened by 1.25" If you can get a TY250 for for a resonable price I think a nice competitive bike can be made for a fraction of the cost of a Majesty or TLR etc. Thanks for that Woodie. Generally in line with my thoughts.I've moved the footrests now. The fork yokes are hopefully being machined by next week, fingers crossed! I was wondering about the swing arm but will wait till i've had time to run it a bit. Which piston do i use to take it to 320cc ? Where would i get one from? I know i can get a tank via Mick but they are very very expensive but at least they are alloy. The one on Craig Mawlems site does sound a bit expensive seeing as it's glass fibre and doesnt include anything. Might have to stick with the std one unless something else comes up. I quite enjoy the modifying fettling bit so any and all suggestions appreciated. One other thing the front wheel spindle seems very thin are they ok or should i try to get bigger bearings and a thicker spindle made? Oh yes and i seem to have a strange heat shield on the exhaust. All the other ones i have seen have vertical slats mine are horizontal. OOH err Edited July 4, 2007 by Old trials fanatic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody Posted July 4, 2007 Report Share Posted July 4, 2007 (edited) Piston is a DT360 piston which makes 320. The DT has windows cut in the back for the inlet. You can use a YZ360 but this has an arch cut into the skirt instead of window and makes the bike sharper and also wears out quicker. DT with windows is the better option. Or you can use a DT400 piston for 340cc but there is no point really, I can't tell any difference between 320 and 340 when mine was done. Back to 320 now anyway. Don't forget you need the spacer under the barrell with the 320 conversion to retain piston/port timing. Craig Mawlam has these although you could make one. About 2mm thick I think. Try a mate of mine, Colin, for the piston, this is a link to his website below. Not sure what he has left now. He can also get an alternative electronic ignition for the Yams which they have been trying on the Yellow Majesty you can see on the website under customising. ty offroad website The fibreglass tank from Craig uses the original cap from the TY tank. Not sure about the tap, I think they are made to take the Ossa/Bultaco type that are always on ebay - that's what mine has anyway. I think he may still have some used full size alloy tanks too. I've had no problems with my fibreglass tank, except it doesn't hold much, although I've not run out yet on a road trial. Front wheel spindle is fine, won't give any problems, same size as Ossa/Bultaco. Your exhaust shield isn't a Yam one, if you want an original try Ellastone, they should have one, or Alan Pedder at A & B Autos, Cheadle. Edited July 5, 2007 by Woody Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old trials fanatic Posted July 5, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 Piston is a DT360 piston which makes 320. The DT has windows cut in the back for the inlet. You can use a YZ360 but this has an arch cut into the skirt instead of window and makes the bike sharper and also wears out quicker. DT with windows is the better option. Or you can use a DT400 piston for 340cc but there is no point really, I can't tell any difference between 320 and 340 when mine was done. Back to 320 now anyway. Don't forget you need the spacer under the barrell with the 320 conversion to retain piston/port timing. Craig Mawlam has these although you could make one. About 2mm thick I think. Try a mate of mine, Colin, for the piston, this is a link to his website below. Not sure what he has left now. He can also get an alternative electronic ignition for the Yams which they have been trying on the Yellow Majesty you can see on the website under customising. ty offroad website The fibreglass tank from Craig uses the original cap from the TY tank. Not sure about the tap, I think they are made to take the Ossa/Bultaco type that are always on ebay - that's what mine has anyway. I think he may still have some used full size alloy tanks too. I've had no problems with my fibreglass tank, except it doesn't hold much, although I've not run out yet on a road trial. Front wheel spindle is fine, won't give any problems, same size as Ossa/Bultaco. Your exhaust shield isn't a Yam one, if you want an original try Ellastone, they should have one, or Alan Pedder at A & B Autos, Cheadle. Thanks again Woodie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy m Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 Theres a TY250 gone on ebay tonight 189 miles from new dry stored etc. Buy it now 2K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old trials fanatic Posted July 5, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 Theres a TY250 gone on ebay tonight 189 miles from new dry stored etc. Buy it now 2K. Just bought me lottery ticket. Will let ya know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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