g4321 Posted January 4, 2005 Report Share Posted January 4, 2005 Does anyone have the spring specifications for the TLR250 - they are NOT the same as the TLR200 but are the same as the XR200. What I am interested in is the spring wear limit or even a typical length if someone has an old spring lying around - or an XR200 manual! I have new springs & friction plates from EBC on my rebuilt bike and am suffering from slight clutch slip in high gears. On comparisson with the springs that were fitted to the bike before I bought it (no idea if they are original or not - hence the plea for original specs) the EBC springs are longer but seem softer (easier to compress). I am waiting for new steel plates in case distortion or wear in these is the cause of my problems but would like to know a little more about the springs before I strip/rebuild again. I have also contacted EBC re springs. I have tried the clutch with excess play in the cable and straight mineral bike specific oil to eliminate all other factors. I have also tried the bike cold and hot. I had used a different oil initially but this oil has been used several times before in my other TLR with no problems, under significantly harder use than the problem bike so it is highly unlikely to be oil related. The clutch should havve been well bedded in after 4-6 hours running. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
filis2xtreme Posted January 5, 2005 Report Share Posted January 5, 2005 xr200 clutch spring free length 37.9mm(1.49in.) wear limit 34.7mm(1.37in.) that's taken from the clymer manual Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g4321 Posted January 5, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2005 xr200 clutch spring free length 37.9mm(1.49in.)wear limit 34.7mm(1.37in.) Thanks for the info - exactly what I was looking for. The springs i took out of the bike are close to the wear limit quoted (~36 mm) but this does not explain why the EBC springs I was supplied with seem lighter?... For the record TLR200 springs are listed in the Honda manual as 35.1mm and 31.6mm wear limit. Hopefully my new steel plates will cure my problems Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superhondaman Posted January 5, 2005 Report Share Posted January 5, 2005 I have the same problem, again using EBC clutch/springs, the clutch slips in 4th & 5th under load with 10/40 semi synthetic oil. Have orderd some original ones & will be running on 30 monograde oil then. Also have EBC brake shoes in & will try originals next time. EBC's dont seem to last very long. One point, i use a GSXR 750 for track days & Suzuki say 'do not use fully synthetic oil as it will induse clutch slip'! maybe they know what they are on about? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t-shock 250 Posted January 5, 2005 Report Share Posted January 5, 2005 I have been using fully synthetic in my 250 and found the clutch to be more "grabby" than with semi synth, the opposite to what you are experiencing. Never had any clutch slip though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g4321 Posted January 5, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2005 Well I have just finished changing the steel plates on the bike - now it has new (genuine) steel plates, EBC springs & friction plates. The steel plates which came out don't look that good so hopefully this has been the root of my problems. I don't want to blame the EBC plates out of hand until I have tried the clutch with the new steel plates. If it does slip then - I will appoint blame. Initially when I rebuilt the bike i had clutch slip - the friction plates did not look too god although they were in spec. I never bothered much about the steel plates at this time. On trying the bike with new friction plates & springs - still slip but not so bad (subjective?) . hence my 'hope' the steel plates will cure the problem. We will see! I will try bike AM Thursday along a farm road. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g4321 Posted January 5, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2005 If you dont mind me asking, was there any other reason for fitting EBC parts other than cost? Cost did not really come in to it - I needed plates in a hurry & could get these next day. EBC are usually a quality product - I have never had problems in the past - and dont know YET if this is the source of my problems now. If my dealer had offered me some cheap aftermarket bits I would not have used them. I dont ride the clutch in sections ( I have spent too long riding road bikes and scrambles bikes to change my habits!) so the improved action of CG125 plates would be wasted on me - as long as a clutch does not slip under power was all I was bothered about & I wanted the bike back together asap. If I had intended doing anything to the clutch when I rebuilt the motor I would have used Honda bits. The only bits I dont bother with factory parts on all my bikes are - fork seals, plugs, chains, sprockets & brake shoes/pads & apart from my road bikes clutch plates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t-shock 250 Posted January 5, 2005 Report Share Posted January 5, 2005 A m8 of mine does a lot of professional tuning work on roadracing machinery and recently had to change a full set of GSXR clutch plates, after the owner had used fully synthetic oil! The specific motorcycle synthetics are fine apparently, but not the oils intended for cars. He has also had plenty of trouble with EBC clutch plates, and now wont touch them anymore. It goes without saying really not to use car oil in a bike, it even says so in the tech description, i am talking about bike specific full synth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g4321 Posted January 6, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2005 Looks like the steel plates have cured the problem - hard to say on a muddy farm road with nothing to really load the clutch but next time i have the bike out in anger will tell............! EBC have a (temporary?) reprieve. As for car oils in bikes it really depends onthe spec of the oil. I raced a YZ400 yam and a mate had a 426. Both of us used car oils all the time - neither of us with any problems. We made sure that the specification was correct - not just the oil weight but whether there are any friction modifiers or similar in the oil. The yamaha manual had a strict oil specuification laid down for these bikes and we both found an oil which exactly met this - both different oils, one fully and one semi synthetic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g4321 Posted January 10, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2005 Well New steel plates did not cure the problem - still slip under power in high gears. I Emailed EBC's help desk about this and they have looked into it - they purchased a Honda spring and it turns out that the spring has been wrongly interchanged about 10 years ago - hence the spring listed in their catalogue is a softer spring than it should be. The correct EBC part no is CSK105 (dont know what it means either) Before receiving this reply from them I had already ordered a set of Honda original fitment springs from my friendly local dealer . EBC have offered to replace springs FOC - when I find last one of set i will contact them & say I have ordered Honda springs while waiting for a reply. Still having a dodgy clutch gives me an excuse for dire trial scores so perhaps I will keep low strength springs! SuperHondaman - this will explain your problem as well! Gordon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g4321 Posted January 18, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2005 Just to confirm that having the wrongly crossmatched springs was the source of my problems. Honda springs have cured the slip I was suffering, EBC have changed their cross-reference for the TLR250 clutch spring and are giving me a full refund! Happy now - just need to learn to ride better! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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