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The twist grip is a pure speed control and the clutch sets the torque/current limit ( just like a manual gas bike ). When The clutch is pulled in the current limit is set to a level that even at full throttle there is not enough power to move the bike but the more current you allow to the motor the more torque it will start to produce, with the clutch fully out I would compare riding my bike to riding a 280 beta in 1st gear ( but with 3X the top speed ) and not using the clutch at all, it becomes very twitchy and very easy to loop out. I started off by setting up a 2 position switch that changes the resolution of the throttle ( setting 1 would give 0-100% speed and setting 2 0-60% speed for the full range of travel of the throttle) this worked ok but still didnt allow for nice control in the slippery stuff as it still gave 100% torque at any throttle position. And to be honest I like modifying the bikes more now than riding them now..
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Would be quite fun, maybe have the sound of a R6 sports bike or maybe a Harley D..
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I like what you have done with the frame... top job, but what about a bash plate ?
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I was considering using something along the lines of a buzzer, but I have not got round to trying it. Brushless allows a lot more configuration but the cost of the controllers tend to a lot more expensive than a brushed controller. You can play with a brushless set for quite cheap ( not one for a full size trials bike, but maybe something to put on a bicycle , maybe less than $150 for motor/controller). I have PM'ed the site admin to either rename this forum to just 'electric trials bikes' and have a sub forums off that for the different makes but nothing :-(.
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I find this interesting, The arrangement of my e-clutch reacts and feels 100% like a real clutch ( including big launches and being able to modulate fine throttle control ) the only down side to the e-clutch is that there is no engine noise/feedback but this is just a matter of getting used to it. I think It really depends on what type of controller it is i.e is it a speed based throttle or a current/torque based throttle. If it was a pure speed based throttle then I found this not the best thing for trials but can be usable if coupled with some throttle conditioning ( maybe how the EM does it using a e-clutch ) but a current/torque based throttle then this is better and can be used out of the box for trials as is but this can also be enhanced with some throttle conditioning ( e-clutch ).
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The torque of a brushless motor is proportional to the BEMF of the 3 phases which tends to be much, much more current than from the battery side. There are many other factors that would also need to be considered i.e motor diameter, motor speed and gearing in working out if a flywheel is going to be better, my controllers are set for around 300A on the battery side and the phase current is limited to 2.5x battery current, I know this do not translate to the 800A+ on your estimated needed but the bike is near on 20kg lighter than a gas version so its swings and round abouts and its all about finding the best setup for the rider. I dont want to start getting into the whole debate of which is better, but I do think you are right as regards the flywheel but at a cost of it will make the bike heavier and less efficient.
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You can mimic a mechanical clutch 100% using electronics with a brushless motor / controller , I dont know how Scorpa and GG do it but I have my own method that works. BMS tends to be more trouble than its worth on lower than 60v systems ( I know of more battery problems that has been caused through on board BMS that has convinced me never to go down the BMS route ) all my bm is done manually .
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as nostroke has said it is very difficult to say for definite how long a e-bike will run for per charge, there are just to many variables. My converted sherco is around 10kg lighter and runs on slighty higher voltage. When riding a event there is very little riding to be honest, most of the riding is done between sections I guestimate my bike will be able to do a 4-5 hour event on maybe around 20-30ah but if just playing it will be around 20ah per hour of riding. The batterys on my bike can be changed in around 2mins and I have 4x 10ah battery packs.
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Hi jojo thanks for the additional information , the top speed is more to give me a idea of what torque this bike will produce (55km/h is quite fast for such a small motor (trials use ) ) . I tend to gear my bikes to give the best torque for the given amount of peak kw from the motor, I am just try to collect some data to see the differences between the bikes.
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Hi and welcome to TC jojo,
It nice to know that someone actually has one of these in the real world and the actual price that you paid, I think that the EM is much better than the TXT-e ( but only knowing the limited information that I have access to ) . I know you may not have a speedo on the bike but please can you get a top speed reading off of it some how, It would find it very useful to have a comparison . Thanks for posting.
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a place to buy the txt-e kit http://www.eta-motors.com/
looks like you will need to contact a scorpa importer about the availability 0f the EM5.7 and price ( price looks to be around 6-6.5k)
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Im not sure 100% sure of the price but I last heard it was going to be no more or no less than a gas bike so Im guessing it may be around 4-5k euros , and yes it has the same setup for a clutch as the TXT-e, I dont think th txt-e will ever be sold as a off the self complete bike ( but things change ) I think it is sold as a bolt on kit for a Gas Gas rolling chassis and this makes it very expensive again I heard prices of around 4k euro's just for the kit then another 4k for the Gas Gas donor bike. The videos that I have seen of the TXT-e just looks very under powered ( I bet thats 10kw peak and not constant ) and looks like its going to be over priced.
EM5.7
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=OSaLH65j9i4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=OUWZWm5wNKI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=fZVbn3b12Qk
http://www.trial-club.com/webzine-trial/actualites/2012/em-2012/
Gas Gas
Just looked up they recon a retail price for a ridable bike will be a retail price of between 7-8k euros
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ES2m77qNOcE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=RbECu2fnnMo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=JmkGgUlJy-8
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Use standard bicycle spokes ( 14g ) ( I expect the replacement rim will use 12g spokes so not to much difference ) and get some SS washers for the nipples so they dont get pulled thro the rim I cant remember what size washers will be needed but its going to be around m3. The spokes will be plenty strong enough and much better than making the hub weaker by driller out the spoke holes.
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The new controller in the oset is programable so should be able to select different throttle modes ( but not sure if the programming cable and software is available yet ). The scorpa EM 5.7 is the only pure e-trials out there at the moment http://www.electric-motion.fr/accueil.html
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Yes I think the title of this forum also needs to be changed to maybe just 'electric trials bikes'. The 20" oset is more than capable for a adult but not as a out and out trials machine, its strong enough and has enough power to still have some fun even for the heavier rider. the delay in the delay in the throttle is easy enough to over come if really needed. There is already full size off road bikes on the market and some are better than others and only one full size trials bike ( as far as I know ) on the market. I think next year there will be even more coming onto the market and hopefully prices will also come down.
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The cold weather really do effect the run time on all my bikes, I guestimate if the temp is below 10'ish then I am loosing around 10-15% of my capacity which is not good :-(
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At the moment they are running 12s2p HK turnigys (5000mah) 44.4v 10Ah. Dont be jealous all good things come to those who wait ( you may not have to wait so long for the next major upgrade from oset )
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Yes I know someone who runs lipo on the 20" oset as a 48v sla replacement.
I cant answer the controller question directly but if you open it up and have a look at the big capacitors max voltage this will give you a idea if it will handle the voltage. i.e if they are marked with 63v then I would not take the chance You need to hope that they are marked as 85v or 100v also if you have the controller open have a look at the part number on the fets ( 3 pin devices , there should be at least 2 side by side but I expect it will be more like 6 ) , this will enable to find out the max curret and max voltage that they will work at.
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if it drops then your connection loop lead may have a high resistance, this will mean that the voltage will drop to a very low voltage that may not be enough to power the motor, other than that ( unless it is a faulty battery, (very unlikey) you can test this just by using a different pair for the 24v setup ) I cant really think what else can cause this, perhaps someone can confirm that they have run a 24v bike on 36v as It just may be something by design in the controller.
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it looks like you have wired the batterys up ok, assuming that the neg of the pack goes to the thick black wire on the bike ( I cant see from the picture as its behind the relay ). As far as I know there is not a over voltage cut out on these controllers so in theory should work. Do it still work on the 24v even after you have tried the 36v ? ( just wondering if something have gone pop, I hope not ) .The only thing I can suggest at the moment is put the 36v directly into the controller via the big red and black wires and try ( assuming it still works with 24v ) this will bypass the relay/keyswitch and associated wiring.
edit: just thought with it all connected put a voltmeter on the output of the 36v battery setup and so the controller turns on watch the voltage as you twist the throttle do it still read 36v+ or do it drop ?
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A couple of dabs of silicon rubber on the bead of the tyre ( between the bead and rim ) may help , dont put it all around the bead as it may be to difficult to get the tyre off again.
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The engine came out of a 2002
Thanks.
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If you say its not a "copy" then it must be true.
The newer T14 looks nothing like its smaller brothers, its almost like they were designed be 2 separate companies.
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Come to think of it I think I remember now, the gg is a mecatecno just re-badged ( please dont quote me on this, as I may be totally wrong ) ( dont want to upset anyone )
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