esteve

Taken at the Scottish Pre 65 (day 2) in 2011 at the exit from pipeline. I like this picture because: its sunny. it looks like a 1964 cub ( and I think he had a good ride up pipeline); other than the riding gear it could be 1964. More photos from the 2011 event here: http://www.trialscentral.com/forums/topic/36406-pre-65-scottish-2011-photographs/?hl=%2Bscottish+%2B2011

Is the TLR forward kick? Is it an ATC engine or ATC RHS cover?

There's a lot of useful information here; thankyou. On the subject of the new needle, do you know what code is stamped on it, at the top, below the circlip groove and above the working area. I'm trying to make sense out of a variety of needles I have to choose from for my carburetor rebuild here: http://www.trialscentral.com/forums/topic/47707-tlr200-carburettor-rebuild/

Lucky Lad. Your sprocket choice is rather extreme though. A 58 tooth sprocket will extend below the "sharks fin" sprocket guard so it won't do its job. I've watched youth riders on 80cc Betas and the like footing and falling over and derailing their chains with their boots. 12/58 = 4.83:1 You already have a 10 so 10/48 =4.8:1 which is almost the same final drive ratio as 4.83:1. 9/44 (4.88:1) is what many Clubmen and Novice riders use but 10/48 gives the chain and front sprocket an easier time.

Its a good point to check the carburetor flange is capable of sealing and the key to that should be a correctly sized new o-ring. Fitting an oversized o-ring will cause distortion, to the extent that the slide can stick in some cases because the carburetor should be flanged up "metal to metal" to the manifold/insulator and the flange will bend about the oversized o-ring. If the flange is distorted and material is removed then part of the o-ring groove depth will be reduced; be careful. The groove in the carb is 2mm deep and ~3.4mm wide. The correct replacement o-ring is ~2.5 mm diameter cross section and 29mm ID (size not given in the parts catalogue as it is part of a kit; these are my measurements) and when the carburetor is flanged up compression of the ~.5mm of o-ring standing proud of the groove forms the seal and it can expand into the 3.4mm wide groove. However on the carburetor below somebody replaced the correct o-ring with a 3.4/3.5mm cross section diameter o-ring so when the carburetor is flanged up with the manifold there is nowhere for the extra o-ring material to expand to and the flange will bow about the centre of the flange and the distortion will either have immediate effect or as in my case creep through the body of the carburetor and cause slide sticking (and air leaks) about 2 years later. Carburetor flange with correct 2.5mm diameter o-ring: Carburetor flange with oversized o-ring completely filling the groove: The seal between the Manifold/insulator and the head is also critical. An up to 30 year old o-ring is liable to harden, crack and leak as the witness marks on this manifold show: The correct o-ring size for this joint is 33.5 x 3 mm (Honda parts catalogue). The OEM o-rings seem to be nitrile? I've thought about using viton (re ethanol content in fuel) but these tend to be a bit harder. With the engine in the frame the only way to remove the carburetor is to detach the manifold/insulator from the head so plan ahead and have spare o-rings to hand. A good tip is get a bike running and hot before trying to undo engine bolts such as those for the manifold/insulator; the same applies to valve covers, timing cover plugs etc. so think about slackening anything off after a trial- just make sure the engine is stone cold before you replace any threaded item... Also, there is not much space to get at the bottom 6mm bolt for the manifold/insulator and you need a combination spanner with a shallow angle ring to fit the 8mm head properly (if it hasn't been chewed up already...then a vice grip and a hot engine may save the day and overcome the friction due to 30 years of bolt corrosion). If the bolts need replacing then to conserve the threads in the head I would recommend using Honda parts, 96000-06020-00 "Bolt, Flange, 6 x 20mm" and not some generic bolt with poorly machined threads....and apply a light smear of "Copaslip" to the bolts when reinstalling, not a great gob of it or you could create a hydraulic lock in the hole. Don't overtighten, its only a 6mm bolt.

I've started this post because I'd like some information on a replacement Needle Set and confirmation of what jets are best. However I'm providing a preamble in case it's of interest to others. My TLR200 is circa 1983/1984 ? (registered in UK in 2009 on an "A" plate and shows first registration as 1/1/1984) - Frame number 1004•••. The red/white/blue tank model - its not NOT a Reflex The carburetor is a Keihin PW22. The ID on the flange is 660C |B|VI= (660C on RHS of Flange, |B|VI= are the symbols on the LHS; the B is actually in a "box" but "| |" is the best I can do on a keyboard). For parts ordering the important parts of the ID are "660C B"; only the first symbol from the LHS group is required. RHS and LHS refer to the position when on the bike, not looking at the front of the flange) I have another identical carb as well that is from a bike with Frame number 1019••• (imported from Japan in November 2000 by D&K in Staffordshire) Both carburetors have the same jetting Main Jet 98 Pilot Jet 40 Needle circlip: second groove from top Needle ID: stamped 2FA Slide: 166C 2.5 .....................so there is a high probability that these are standard factory settings for the Japanese market (which year(s)?), or a common pre/post delivery rejetting? In general the performance with these "660C B" carburetors is very good with a clean pick-up and only occasionally have I experienced the "cough, stall" but when it does happen it is very frustrating. I've cleaned both carburetors in an ultrasonic bath and they are now as good as I can get them without replacing the needle and needle jet (which might have some wear). In combination with a DEP exhaust (having previously used the standard TLR200D/E exhaust) the performance seems a bit better than before the rebuild but maybe there is room for improvement? I have an almost as new body from a carburetor taken from a Reflex that I want to rebuild to a suitable specification in the hope that will provide optimum carburation. The Reflex carburetor (ID on flange = P08A |A|) body appears identical to the 660C |B| body apart from, on the Reflex carburetor, projecting lugs around the float bowl clip and a threaded boss on the base of the bowl; 660C on left, P08A on right (note the floatbowl breather/overflow set up): The jetting for the Reflex carburetor is: Main Jet 92 Pilot Jet 38 Needle position: only 1 circlip position Needle ID: stamped 6LC ......is this the standard Reflex needle or one from the 16012-KJ2-305 kit popular in North America? Slide: 166C 2.5 I've no idea how this performs but comments about this specification are not favourable, especially with regard to the 38 pilot jet which most people seem to find is too lean. The 6LC needle appears, apart from only having 1 setting, to be identical to the 2FA needle in terms of diameter versus length; ie the tapers are identical. The single circlip position on the 6LC needle equates to groove 3 on the 2FA needle which is a richer setting (at wide throttle openings anyway) compared with a 2FA needle on groove 2 - I had the impression that Reflexes ran weak as standard as the general opinion is that the needle needs to be raised, usually with a small washer? I'm now at the stage of looking for suitable genuine (known size) jets and a slide needle to bring my Reflex carburetor to either the same specification as my non Reflex carburetors or something better. A TLR200 carburetor rebuild kit I acquired is non genuine (the jets and needle are unstamped; no sizes, no "K" star logo) although the gaskets, o-rings, drain screw, float valve, airscrew and tickover screw appear to be usable. If you are going to use any non genuine Keihin parts be VERY careful when it comes to the airscrew and tickover screw springs. In the picture below, from top to bottom: Reflex airscrew (with cap), Reflex airscrew (no cap), Genuine airscrew spring (.6mm wire), Genuine airscrew (worn tip), Non-genuine spring (too long and 0.7mm wire; same length as the spring for the tickover screw), Non-genuine airscrew (slightly longer but taper is the same): Using the overlong and stiffer non-genuine airscrew spring would cause damage. In this particular rebuild kit the airscrew and tickover screw springs are identical and I wouldn't advise using one for the tickover screw either because although they are the right length for the tickover screw they are much stiffer (0.7mm vs. 0.6mm and temper?) than the original part and would strain the threads in the carburetor body. I have a parts catalogue dated 1983 for the TLR200D and TLR200E models. The photograph for the model shows a TLR200D which has a white tank, round headlight, 35mm forks (bulge on sliders), alloy front brake arm (so 95mm ID drum) and an exhaust that is not the Reflex type, i.e. a small OD tailpipe compared to the fatter Reflex type). It lists the markets for the TLR200D as: AR - Austria BH - Belgium F - France MD09 - 5000009~ and carb type 660C |A| (the |A| is the first character of the ID on the LHS of the carburetor flange) H - Netherland and for TLR200E E - England NZ - New Zealand SW - Switzerland The specification for the carburetor for all but the Swiss model are: Main Jet 98 Pilot Jet 42 (vs. both my non Reflex carburetors use a no. 40) Needle Set, Jet part no: 16012-331-771 (kit; needle + jet + clip + retainer) The Swiss model uses Needle Set, Jet part no. 16012-KJ2-741 and a no. 38 Pilot jet Questions................... I have obtained an OEM needle set 16012-331-771 and the needle is stamped 273005, so that adds another element of uncertainty as to what is the best needle for trials. The bag was open so maybe it is not correct for the set part number. The 273005 needle has a narrower taper than the 2FA needle (and seems to be the same diameter/taper as the non-genuine needle in the rebuild kit I discussed above). The image below shows a 2FA needle and a 273005 needle bottomed out in identical holes in a disc (its a button...) the fatter needle (with the circlip) is the 2FA. The 273005 needle would give a richer mixture than the 2FA needle (the ID of the needle jets appear to be identical) at wide throttle openings but just off idle the diameter/taper appears to be the same (using my "button box" as a source of go/no-go gauges - and swapping the holes I'm placing the needles in to make sure the holes are identical). Its not easy comparing a needle with some wear, even if imperceptible, with a new needle of a different taper. The 331 model code indicates a part for a SL125 K0/K1/K2 model. Can anybody confirm that 273005 is the needle in the Needle Set 16012-331-771? What is best, a 2FA needle or a 273005 needle? Any other recommendations for a needle/needle jet set? Pilot jet; 40 or 42? WIth a DEP exhaust system would a 42 be better? Main jet: I've seen posts about fitting 100 or 105 main jets but I presume the main jet is not that critical as it only controls the last part of the range of slide travel? Thankyou

Some useful info here: http://www.twinshock.org.uk/spip.php?article46 and here: http://www.kaila.net/tl125/tl125faq/index.html and here: http://www.trialscentral.com/forums/topic/33454-tl125150-swap/ That will get you started.....

Does anybody know where I can get the type of water pump and LH case protecting wrap around bar; the type that fixes to the front 2 sumpguard bolts and bends around to form "ears" over those parts of the engine? Gracias

Has anybody got a picture they could upload to show where the inlet restrictor is please, and what it looks like?

I spotted this enduro kit: (James Bond - Quantum of Solace) Copyright Karen-Roe-Flickr

Thankyou for this diagram. My manual is in Spanish and I had sort of deduced the "casquillos" 18 and 19 are the restrictors. Another question on the subject of exhausts; the front pipe on my 2005 appears to be a smaller diameter and has a thick weld after the first bend. When I compare it with images of a later pipe the later pipe has no weld and appears to be a larger outer diameter. Is the weld another restriction? Is the 2005 front pipe a smaller OD than the later ones? My 2005 here: And here is a later type: Thankyou

Maybe this is what you are looking for? http://bps-eng.pagesperso-orange.fr/

Thankyou for the information and feedback. As I never seem to use more than 3 litres/trial in the trials I ride in (TLR 200; doesn't use much fuel) and put fresh fuel in for every trial the cost for Aspenfuel isn't exhorbitant for a per trial basis. Also, I tend to built up a significant amount of unused petrol over the winter as my car uses diesel and the lawnmower and road bike don't get any/much use then. I would like to find out more about the product though in relation to additives, or rather lack of them, re valve gear wear, although its not as if trials bike do any motorway mileage for example. The manufacturer's website http://en.aspen.se/Consumer/Motor_sport does mention Motorsport use though so I'm going to give it a try.

I've seen this or similar at my local Lawnmower Sales/Repair centre and yes, it is not cheap. What Octane/RON is it? Would anybody using it care to provide some feedback?

Thankyou, and I must say it looks a very nicely prepared bike.

The Ethanol problem could get worse, not immediately, but possibly in the near future and probably in the USA before Europe? I've been noticing articles in Press summaries and Reports that I see at work with recent articles reinforcing one I saw in August 2012: Drop in fuel use reignites debate over US ethanol Financial Times, 12/03/2013, p.30, Gregory Meyer The biofuel industry says the RIN market is signalling that oil companies should raise standard petrol blends from the 10 per cent status quo, known as E10. Hitting the Wall: RFS2 Compliance in 2013 Wood Mackenzie Thur 07/03/2013 The US gasoline pool is very close to the ethanol "blend wall", which is the maximum amount of ethanol that can be blended into gasoline. Once the blend wall is reached, compliance with the Renewable Fuels Standard will grow increasingly difficult due to rising biofuels mandates, declining gasoline demand, limited penetration of higher ethanol gasoline blends, and the draw-down of surplus RINs generated in prior years. Within the next year or two, unless there are legislative changes, new renewable technologies that rapidly commercialize, or a large increase in consumer demand for higher blends of ethanol in gasoline via widespread acceptance of E15 as an alternative to E10 or by flex-fuel vehicle owners purchasing more E85, compliance with the Renewable Fuels Standard will be very difficult. In this Insight, Wood Mackenzie discusses how multiple contributors to the blend wall problem are converging and what pathways exist that could resolve the blend wall. 2012 US Biofuel Production and RIN Balances, Wood Mackenzie Tue 28/08/2012 2012 is proving to be a challenging transitional year for all those involved in the US biofuels market. The requirements of the Renewable Fuels Standard continue to rise inexorably, while the expiry of supportive tax credits at the end of 2011 has combined with poor crop conditions to shrink the margins of biofuel producers. As the EPA has released RIN generation information through the end of June 2012, Wood Mackenzie takes a mid-year look at the volumes produced so far, and forecasts the achievability of 2012 target volumes. We find that biodiesel will likely be produced well in excess of the RFS2 mandates and will have a record year, while conventional ethanol mandates will be met by a combination of physical production and drawing on the market surplus of RINs from prior years. Meeting the other advanced renewables mandate will require an influx of Brazilian sugarcane imports comparable to volumes imported during the last half of 2011. Wood Mackenzie predicts that the 10% blend wall will not a limiting factor until 2014 due to the surplus of conventional RINs that will still exist in 2013.

What are the forks from?The handlebar riser looks unusual?

They were on Alan Wright's stand. (Alan, your mail box is full)

Its not Trials but its not everyday a Guzzi V8 is fired up right next to you and ridden through the hall afterwords .....I remember seeing a Protar kit of one a long long time ago and being absolutely fascinated; now I've seen the real thing, and heard it. It was running for about 4 minutes but I've edited it down to 1:22. I listened to Jim Curry speaking about some past races; incredible that he could remember in great detail what revs he was pulling and what gear he was in on various corners on various circuits. He talked us around Spa and it was like being there; I felt physically sick at one point as I didn't really want to go "flat" through Eau Rouge, even vicariously. I had a constructive chat with Alan Whitton; I learned that the posts and cam for the shoes on his Cub backplates can be repositioned with the brakes applied to keep the shoes concentric with the drum as they wear (a bit like a Fantic 300 front backplate). UPB had a very professionally presented stand for anybody that likes Trick Cubs (I do, but I think I'm not supposed to...) It was a treat to stand up close to the ex-works Hondas and inspect the details; look at the Tax Disc: Bought a load of mudguards and bits and pieces from the trade stands and saved a lot of postage otherwise. I've never seen so much MotoX stuff in one place and never appreciated how BIG (as in long) some MotoX forks are; nearly as tall as I am; the forks on the Bultaco Pursang I raced back in the 70's were virtually the same as those on the Sherpa trials bikes, as I recall anyway, and you could carry that analogy to Greeves Anglians and Greeves Griffons. A mobile phone with a camera is a great thing to take photos of things that catch your eye for future reference; that nut/bolt looks a bit close to the engine case?

If you Google trialscubparts that might be useful?

I'm posting this in the event it might help somebody. At a trial last Sunday (10th Feb) my usually well behaved Honda TLR200 had a sticking carburettor slide problem. I've had the bike for 2 years and have never touched the carb or the manifold nuts apart from taking the float bowl off to inspect/clean it when I bought it and draining it after each post trial wash. It had behaved faultlessly during a run the week before when I warmed the engine up to change the oil. The ambient temperature was 4degC and I thought it might be carb icing. I took the top of the carb and pulled out the slide. With the slide free of the carb body the twistgrip action was normal so it wasn't the cable and I had already checked the cable run to see if there was a kink or pressure point. I removed the slide from the cable and inserted it into the carb body and there was resistance. Fortunately I had some stiff lockwire in my tool box as I had to form a hook on the end of some lockwire and insert it into the cable slot to remove the slide as it was quite firmly stuck. I wiped everything with a clean rag and sprayed everything with WD40 and put it back together and it was just about rideable despite it being a total mystery as to why the carb had gone from faultless performance to a mystery problem. I did most of the first lap until the bike was unrideable with the slide occasionally sticking in the open position. I returned to the paddock and I took the slide out again. Absolutely no dirt or gumming up (WD40 is a wax?) but the slide was still sticking. 10 out of 10 to anybody who has by now considered carb body distortion. When I considered it and slackened off the carb manifold nuts the slide freed up immediately. The bolts were then slack so I tore off some 1cm wide strips of duct tape and wrapped them around the flange joint in case of air entry (Duct tape actually being used to seal a duct; that must be a first), put the top back on the carb and finished the trial with no further problems. As i said above, I've never had the carb off and have never touched the manifold nuts. There is a physical explanation for the distortion that occurred in the carb body but what it is I don't know; perhaps it was ambient temperature related. There is the faintest evidence of a high spot in the carb body towards the front but until last Sunday i never had a problem. So, consider carb body distortion for a sticking slide, even if you haven't disturbed a carb that was behaving faultlessly. UPDATE 29/09/2013 I got around to removing the problem carburetor and have traced the problem to somebody replacing the o-ring between the carb and the manifold with an oversized replacement. The groove in the carb is 2mm deep and 3.4mm wide. The correct replacement o-ring is approx 2.5 mm diameter and when the carb is flanged up compression of the ~.5mm standing proud of the groove forms the seal and can expand into the 3.4mm wide groove when compressed. However, somebody replaced it with a 3.4/3.5mm o-ring so when the carb is flanged up with the manifold there is nowhere for the extra o-ring material to expand to and the flange will bow about the centre of the flange and the distortion will either have immediate effect or as in my case creep through the body of the carb and cause slide sticking much later. Carb flange with correct 2.5mm diameter o-ring: Carb with oversized o-ring completely filling the groove:

Have you got a Reflex? - you where posting earlier about Reflex/TLR differences. Measure your front drum I.D. as while the TLR200 D/E (Red,White and Blue colour scheme and 35mm forks) have 95mm x 20mm single sided drums there are some models (Reflex, and later TLR200 F/G models?) with 110mm x 25mm single sided drums which is the same size drum as the TLR250F (but not the same hub). Or, for a quick check, the MAX ID warning cast inside the drum will be 96mm or 111mm for 95mm and 110mm respectively. The 110mm I.D. TLR200 single sided front hub and backplate look similar to the 95mm I.D. ones with a notable difference, apart from size (which isn't obvious), that the brake arm is pressed steel, not cast aluminium, and is longer, as in this picture: The XR200, XL185 drums are also 110mm single sided drums but the design is different to the TLR as the smaller diameter spoke flange is a steel plate; the TLRs are single castings. TLR200 D/E Drum I.D. = 95mm, shoe width 20mm TLR250F Drum I.D. = 110mm, shoe width 25mm A related thread is here: http://www.trialscen...250 +brake +arm If your concern is braking performance I had my TLR200 (95 x 20mm) shoes relined by Saftek with an oversized "trials" lining and turned down to just under the drum I.D. and that improved them considerably. The brake was like an on/off switch the first time I used them but then became progressive. If I don't deglaze the drum and shoes regularly the performance drops off but it is much better than with the original shoes. On the subject of drum/shoe concentricity I get the impression that in many cases shoes are being turned to size on their backplates to match the drum ID minus a few thou. clearance, but while that means the shoes are concentric to the axle, and hopefully the drum, they are not actually machined to the radius of the drum. If I had the machinery to do this I would shim the brake cam by a few thou. on each side to simulate the shoes in the "ON" position and then turn them down to the drum I.D. so that there is 100% contact with shoe and drum when actuated.