Guess steve had tried all he could, I do know he pretty much always collected the bikes from spain which with hindsight probably meant that the writing was on the wall? If he has tried and tried, and it certainly looks like that from the outside, even if its as good as telecat says then only a fool would try. James gas gas 249 loves the marque and has the spanish connection and wont do it so I guess its not going to happen any time soon.
As stated above if trs get making bikes then Steves the man?
They're will be a statement from Steve soon but he wanted to let people know , the moment he made the decision that it's impossible for him . He's had the patience of a saint as the factory arent easy to deal with ... but he managed ... however just recently it's got worse .
Believe me , if it was straight forward I'd have done it .... but then Steve wouldn't have let it go.
Hopefully the factory will find someone over here.
But why would anyone take this on? Surely it could only be emotion over economics.
Out of curiosity, I contacted Mr. Shao and he and the company seems legit although I have no intention of buying one. I told him I have agents in China ready to take delivery and handle shipping. He responded that the bikes are still in development.
The Chinese are not accurate with their listings but he responded to my questions and I believe his company does make the frames for Gas Gas Pros. Here is part of his response:
The difference is: all the parts we used is made in China, but the structure is the same to gasgas original ones. As the technical parameter shows, we use Zongshen 4-stroke engine, not 2-stroke engine. In China 2-stroke engine is forbidden to be produced due to environmental protection.
Actually for this model, we are still in developing status. We will finish the first sample on May, 2015, so we do not have detailed photos, and if you want to buy sample, you have to wait for 3 months.I am sorry, but we will push the sample developing.
On their company profile are factory photos and I found this one:
GG Pro style frame with Zongshen motor which looks like a 4RT copy. Next generation Randonne prototype? Chinese frames and motors can be very good. It looks like they make frames for Yamaha also. Sherco, Scorpa and Beta use the same Chinese 125 4 stroke engines that Yamaha uses. I wonder if Sherco frames are made in China? They moved to the cheaper to produce tubular frames about the same time. It would be safe to assume the 2T motors are not made in China.
The factory could be stuck with unpaid for Pro frames so they are planning to make and sell these all Chinese versions. Set your calendar for May for the unveiling of the all Chinese Gas Gas Pro!
Why do you believe this company manufactures Gas Gas frames? Because you received an email saying "the structure is the same to Gas Gas original ones"?
I'm with johnnyboxer here; the little I know about GLEAM suggests they are against all off road motor vehicle access.
I'm assuming that most people that interact here are law abiding riders who support sanctioned events. The Catch 22 we face is that there is a population who do not abide by the law, consequently legislators, encouraged by lobby groups, create ever tighter access laws. The consequence of this is that those of us who choose to abide by the law are penalised, whilst those who choose to flout the law continue to do so, their actions unhindered.
The paradigm needs to shift here, from one of increasingly tight legislation to one of policing the existing laws, with significant deterrents for transgression. I wish I knew a way to get this message through to our MPs and legislators. I tried, in relation to the Ridgeway, when I lived in Oxfordshire and Boris Johnson was my MP, his response was so facile it was depressing,
I've just read an open letter from Trueba. Clearly feeling very aggrieved that HRC have offered Busto a contract when they felt they had an agreement in place.
we have a couple of lads with landies take pre 65 heavy metal in landies, one in the back of a 90 hardtop.. one in the back of a brand new lwb station wagon the most practical tho is the 110 hi cap just need a proper ramp and somebody to help..
How on earth do you get a trials bike in the back of a 90 hardtop? I can get my mountain bike in one diagonally, but really the best bet is to drop the front wheel out & clamp the front drop outs on top of one of the wheel boxes, so the bike(s) sit sideways in the back.
I've been tempted more than once by a Land Rover Defender 110 hardtop, for mountain bikes & the trials bike. I wouldn't need the off road capability 99% of the time, I just like them!
But I am a bit concerned about getting the trials bike through the back door. For the mountain bikes it would be a breeze.
As of today, I think Casales is better. As a mid to long term prospect, I think Busto shows more potential
....but then again 10/12 years ago, I rather fancied that Jeroni Fajardo would turn out to be better than that upstart Toni Bou kid, so what do I know!
I think most of us would be expecting Fuji to retire from WTC at the end of 2015.
Most of us would also see Busto as the guy most likely to follow Toni Bou to the top.
On the other hand... best funded team, most expensively developed bike, best riders under contract, smaller competitors in financial difficulty. It's all getting a bit Premier league isn't it!
You only have to look at the rate of companies entering the trials market & then finding it financially unviable to realise that this is not and rarely has been an attractive market.
The first wave of bikes were off shoots of British road bikes, these lost out financially and competitively to the first wave of Spanish manufacturers. Bultaco & Ossa went bankrupt, Montesa were saved by a Honda investment that gave them local manufacturing facilities to avoid Spanish import tax.
In the mid '70s all of the Japanese manufacturers explored the trials market to varying degrees, of these only Honda remain involved, the rest having concluded the market to be too small.
The first Spanish wave and Japanese were replaced by largely Itlaian manufacturers, Fantic, SWM, etc, who have also either gone bankrupt or left the market for more attractive sectors, e.g. Aprilia. I think only Beta have survived from this group.
We now have a second Spanish wave headed by Gas Gas and Sherco and who knows the revived Ossa brand, JGas, soon Vertigo and TRS will be the third Spanish wave.
Through all of these periods there have been many small start ups that have never made much impression, or reached the market.
This amount of entry and subsequent failure or exit indicates two things: the barriers to entry are low for a trials manufacturer, but it is hard to make a sustainable business building low volume bikes into a small market.
With a contract till 2017 if the worst should happen I'm assuming raga would get paid in full?
The real world doesn't work that way. If the worst comes to the worst with any business there's only one person that gets paid, the rest have to split what's left.
That's how the real world does work. If it comes to liquidation, assets will be sold and creditors paid from any surplus. Raga's contract has no greater value or priority than a parts supplier, or other business service provider, in fact since it concerns future liabilities it would most likely count for less & be more easily terminated.
Ultimately, most business's fail due to cash shortages, not lack of profitability. What Gas Gas need to do is become more efficient at converting their assets into cash.
Thanks for sharing this, another interesting interview.
I remember that Butser world round, including having my Mom's Austin Metro towed out the field. That took a bit of explaining!
I and others have posted about a desire for greater variety of seasons, conditions & sections in WTC events. This is the sort of thing that Butser offered. I plan to go down to the BTC there in March, I figure it may offer something a bit different.
What I find incomprehensible is just a few years ago there was the 125cc youth, and then junior, then full wtc.
It was a natural progression and worked well enough, with the younger classes well supported and popular, and popular in the individual countries aswell.
And ffs get the FIM to realise its dying and ask the drop outs oliveras Gomez Gubian Wigg and so on why?
Dabster, I agree with asking "the drop-outs". Best idea yet.
I also enjoyed the 125s, more than the Junior class to be honest.
One aspect of this that I don't feel has worked well is the Youth and Junior classes acting as a feeder to the WTC. I think to top five in the world, who have been there for many years, all came directly into WTC. Those who have won Youth & Junior titles have tended to fill the places from 6th downwards.
I think the biggest challenge for any rider wanting to beat Toni Bou will be the sincere belief that they can beat him.
I think his domination is founded on three factors.
1. He pioneered & mastered a different riding style, very cyclo-trial inspired & back wheel focussed, he uses physicality as much as engine power to move the bike. He has superior technique to the other riders.
2. He has the best support package with the bike & team set up.
3. He has committed to & genuinely believes he will win every event he enters. This confidence helps him produce winning rides at critical moments or in critical sections. The confidence comes from the first two points and his track record of success.
It is evident when you read or hear other riders that they are aiming for second or for the podium. Either Bou's commitment will need to waver or a rider with sufficient technique and belief will need to arrive on the scene.
It will be interesting to see how Casales goes in his second year in WTC and also hoe Jamie Busto fares.
Most people have to work to keep the family going.....its ok for OAP's with nothing better to do to sit all night at centre meetings etc talking nonsense...no 6am rise for them.
With attitudes like this perhaps we need another thread: How long before grass roots trials implodes?
World Round Penrith.
in World Championship Chat
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Justify to who?