al_orange

Thanks for the feedback. I was expecting a bit more "it's you, not the bike".. which it mainly is but good to hear that a newer bike is appreciably better. I was looking at a 16 Evo 250 but in a very out of character way, my missus said "well for that sort of money you should just get a new one that you know 100%"!! I was half way through explaining that 1500 quid is quite a difference before I realised and shut up. I do need to have a go on something newer but my mates have 07/08 and no stranger is going to let a crappy novice have a go on a new bike! I'm definitely sticking with beta though so that makes life a bit easier. So if it's not a stupid question, what are the main real world differences between a 17/18 evo and an ancient Rev3?

So I've got a beat up old 2001 rev 3 270. I've spent a bit of cash doing it up and it runs fairly well, the brakes are fine and I've serviced the forks. However, the swingarm bearings are shot and I expect the shock has had it. It's the age where I can't get the shock serviced so have been living with it as I'm just a novice anyway. However, when I see other people's bikes and their suspension just looks so much more responsive, I do wonder how much of an affect it's having. I'm also 230lbs so would prefer a stiffer spring but cannot get one for my bike. I notice that over rocks, its pretty fine (probably because it's so unresponsive) but it does struggle for grip in the mud and it doesn't turn thay well because the back is overloaded. Now of course, my ability is the limiting factor and I'm well aware of that but at what point does a newer bike (I.e one with the correct springs and a serviced shock etc.) actually make a difference? I keep dipping in to trials (every year for a few months) but I want to give it a proper go this time. Should I persevere with the old horse or bite the bullet and get a new one? (Money isn't a massive problem but I don't want to waste it either). Ta.

Just going to add some points from the perspective of an adult novice in the South West UK We have at least 5 clubs running events within an hour of me so maybe we're spoilt but I've found club Trials to be: Easily accessible, very frequent, friendly, well run, very cheap, safe, and cover the complete spectrum of very easy to ridiculously hard for a novice. So in short, if I want to do trials then I couldn't be better placed. However, the one real obstacle for beginners is that trials is HARD. Really hard... It requires a lot of patience and determination to get anywhere near good. Even then, you basically can't improve unless you have somewhere to practice and someone to teach you. Unfortunately, it's taken me a long time to find somewhere to practice but I can't find any good instruction. Even on here and on videos or with paid instructors there is so much conflicting information that it's sooooo hard to improve. I paid to go to a couple of "good" instructors but they didn't actually teach anything of much use. Just about every year at some point, I get really motivated, go to a handful of trials and get a tiny bit better but then get frustrated because despite trying hard I just do not know what the hell I'm doing! Then I end up losing interest and are back to square one again. So yeah, if you're the kind of person that just got the trials bug then I'm sure it'll stick. Or if you're the kind of person that is either a natural or just doesn't care how good they are then that's great. But for most people, I think the learning curve is too steep. We have local clubs that put on beginner routes and I think that's the best way to get people to join/stay but it's always going to be limited by the fact that it's hard to do and beginners don't like hard. People forget very quickly what it's like to be a beginner sometimes.

You're absolutely right here! I couldn't get the roll up right so thought you always needed to lift the rear but today I was shown the difference and was amazed what I could get up without jumping.The thing I needed to do was let off the throttle sooner and get right forward as the bike went vertical.

Jump! You literally have to jump as if you wanted to clear the obstacle without a bike. I'm just a novice and I used to just end up smashing the back wheel into the obstacle until I started "deweighting" the bike. You need to make sure your legs are bent all the way through the technique, if you straighten them, it drives the rear wheel down.

And that bloke in flares and a sweater can still pull better wheelies than me on my modern bike! lol

Thanks Dan. I'm hoping it will give me at least a year of decent service.... especially after I completely submerged it in a river and filled the engine with dirty water two days after rebuilding it... aaaahhhhh!

Just to update and close the loop in this one - I sent the cylinder to langcourts for replating. It was very close, timings wise but I ended up collecting the cylinder - as expected, it looked like new. I rebuilt everything last night. It took 2 hours because I am pretty methodical (and ham fisted..) the only tricky bits were getting the rings compressed and making sure they were around the location pins and then tightening the head bolts as access with a torque wrench was impossible to two bolts. Have run it up to temperature twice now and it all seems right. It seems to get the fan going a bit quicker that before but then it's pretty warm at the moment. The rattle has completely gone and the engine feels so much smoother now. I went with a 1mm base gasket and that's softened it a bit too. So apart from the time I spent waiting for parts and replating, it took about 4 hours from start to finish and was very straight forward. Will be putting a LOT of hours on the new top end this weekend so fingers crossed I've done it all ok...

And for me, the answer is - Ball Ended Allen Key. Absolutely no problem taking it off at all. Took longer to write this post than to remove the header. Thanks very much for your help. I did have to remove the radiator to get the cylinder off, I had to rotate it on the piston to clear the tank so that might be tricky getting it back on.. I'm pleased that the bottom end seems fine. No detectable up and down play.. The small end is a different matter. There was lots of play between the wrist pin, small end bearing and the con rod. It has an A piston and cylinder. The cylinder does have detectable wear at the top and bottom but otherwise is in remarkably good condition. The piston is well worn too but again, nothing worrying, just hours on the engine. I think I will contact Langcourts and see about getting a replate as the engine is in better condition that I expected so I might get a bit more out of her yet. I've rebuilt/replaced much of the bike outside of the engine except the rear shock, so she's getting better with age. lol.

Just had a tinker - only two options for the header - 1. Remove the radiator and frame spar things or 2. Ball head allen. There simply isn't enough room to do anything else. I'm optimistic though because I took off the fly wheel cover and the fly wheel is absolutely rock solid and very smooth to turn so I'm hoping it's just the top end. I don't think I'll be replating the cylinder at this point as the whole bike is worth about $1000 IF someone was daft enough to buy it but if I can resolve the rattle with a new piston then I'll think about a replate in the very near future (after the upcoming events). It's quite satisfying being a novice with an old crap bike, if I ride a brand new one, people might expect me to know what I'm doing!

Thanks for the info. I've done a fair bit of staring at the engine and it does look like a very tight fit. I've tried a straight allen and it won't go in, so a ball end is the only real option. Now I don't know whether to risk taking it apart as I have events for the next three weeks including a weekend away.. Do I risk missing them all or lunching the engine properly.... next question - piston size, presumably if it's slapping then it's likely to need a bigger piston?? The bike is 15 years old and I wouldn't be surprised if it is on it's original one. The previous owner did not look after it well.

My bike is making a pretty bad tapping/knocking, which I hope is piston slap rather than bottom end (because it used to do it when cold but now does it all the time so is getting bad).... anyway, I thought I'd have a quick look over to see about taking the cylinder off but have fallen at the first hurdle - removing the header! I know this has been discussed before but the thread with the info doesn't have the pictures anymore. So - what tools and methods are needed to get to the allen bolt that's covered by the curve of the header? Also - It's a 2001 270 Rev 3 - will I be able to take the cylinder off with the engine in the frame? It looks pretty tight in there. Thanks.

Somerset - UK!

Had a great day today practicing the tips above. Definitely made some improvements - it was mostly as mentioned that I would immediately grab the clutch and be on/off with that making it really jerky. Figure 8's just using the throttle really helped and gave me a lot of confidence in the bike. Still got a long way to go but it's a start. I was also extremely lucky to get some tuition on technique and bike setup from a very high level rider (British Champion level!) today. Having someone that good give you tips makes a big difference. The only problem is that I have nowhere to practice so I have to try and remember the points when I'm trying to ride sections in a trial.

I bought a shed 2001 beta rev 3. Spent a bit doing it up but otherwise it takes almost no maintenance at all. Just drag it out after months of it sitting there and it fires up second kick every time. Personally as a fellow novice, I would go for the newer bike as that's a big difference in age. Failing that, get the one that's in the best condition.

I definitely scooted my way to a 3 through 2 of the sections last week. That was more to do with balance than clutch control but I know what you mean. I'm doing a trial tomorrow so I'll see if I can try some sections without touching the clutch. I definitely use the clutch to hold the bike back when it starts getting away from me and that's a hangover from enduro for sure. This lack of throttle control hurtd my enduro riding too so it's not just a carry over but it has a more obvious affect in trials.

You're right there. If I knew how much the throttle was open I probably wouldn't have a problem. Lol I'm ok creeping through sections in first gear it's just that when doing a climb for example, I end up holding the throttle steady and use the clutch more until I either get to the top or fail. I see more skilled riders using half the revs and using the throttle on and off as they go up. Does that make sense? It may be a hangover from enduro where you can pretty much blast up anything. I'm still astounded at what a trials bike will crawl up in first gear and how few revs are needed.

Thanks for the replies. My issue is that I tend to unconsciously just hold the throttle about 1/2 and modulate the power using the clutch. I tend to do this even when traction is good. Like my right hand just goes from closed to open and nothing in between. Then the bike either bogs from too little throttle or takes off - either way I end up slipping the clutch to control it. I guess it's just practice but any more structured drills? One expert rider did tell me to get off the clutch once and that did make me ride much more smoothly.

This may be a simple one (but that's why I'm asking). I'm a novice (been riding enduro for a few years) and I think I've got really poor throttle control. It may be because I'm very left handed but I work the clutch all the time and perhaps use it to make up for lack of throttle control. I've already fitted a slow action throttle. So - Are there any good drills for developing throttle control? Any pointers for when to stay off the clutch? Thanks.

Do you mean this to apply to petrol bikes or just electric? I.e. ride most sections without a clutch on a petrol bike? I'm a novice and I think I use the clutch too much perhaps..

Sarcasm?

That's actually the show stopper for me. I'm dying to buy an electric bike but I really want one with a proper functioning clutch. Sounds odd, but I don't want to learn to ride without a clutch because for every other riding discipline (enduro/mx etc) you need it. I can live without gears but not a clutch.

Sounds wicked! I really want one but the only thing I'm concerned about is the clutch. We use the clutch so much that I just can't get my head around not having one. I'll have to try and get a ride on one but I think I'll get one in a year or two. And as for the original thread - I agree that the queueing is a nightmare and I don't see why they don't split the entries over the first 3-5 sections. I know some could complain about starting on harder sections etc. but for club level events, it would be a very good idea. I'm hoping that electric bikes will open up a lot of venues and options.

Definitely a quiet sport that you have to go looking for. No one under the age of 50 ever seems to know what it is unless their "dad used to do that". Part of the problem is that it's pretty boring to watch and definitely doesn't translate into Youtube videos well. But just hopping over a few logs and doing some muddy climbs is such good fun. So tell us more about the EM 5.7!

I agree that there will always be some selfish tosser out there trying to ruin everyone's fun but I honestly think electric bikes are the future. They open up a whole new opportunity for inner-city riding. Imagine a purpose built indoor trial arena or supercross track. It could be financially viable because it would be in densely populated areas and no-one could complain! For me, having the option to have more freedom where I ride would be amazing. I would have absolutely no qualms about riding an electric bike anywhere mountain bikes go. I was thinking that when my current 2001 bike finally gives up, I'd get a new petrol bike but now I'm seriously considering getting an EM5.7 https://youtu.be/DaIY1je1rok