michael_t

Steve, Maybe I am just overly sensitive but after 6 years of doing this you keep implying that I know nothing and am not able to comprehend what you have to say. There are completely new people getting into the sport in our area and they may very well prefer it if we run our events as CMA sanctioned events. In addition it may be a selling feature to some of our sponsors to have CMA sanctioned events. As an event organizer and promoter I need to know how to sell the CMA to the riders and the sponsors. I have asked Marilynn but despite being the head of the CMA I am not sure she knows as much as you do when it comes to Trials. 6 years ago when I started all of this and before the TAC I asked the CMA about getting sanctioned and they told me I had to join as they where the only way we could insure events so kind of had me over a barrel... I admit that has left a bit of a bad taste as they really were not doing a lot for Trials at the time. You and the TAC have brought Trials to a new level at the CMA but I do think the rider community and sponsors still need to know what the cost are and what exactly that cost covers (if it does cover insurance I would like to see the policy) and what in addition is the CMA doing for trials and what level of support are they giving the TAC (at least a rough budget number)? This is about way more than free insurance it is about the CMA asking for 1 or 2 thousand dollars I think it is fair to ask where it is going. So please what exactly is the TAC doing and what is the TAC tasked with and do they have the resources from the CMA required to do it ? I believe you put on CMA events last year so you must know what the costs where and what the CMA insurance policy covers. As the head of the TAC you must know what level of support the CMA is giving to the TAC. Maybe I am just sensitive but I do find that being told I do not yet deserve any answers to be insulting so please if you simply can't or don't want to answer just leave it at that. Thanks, Michael

Steve I am just saying that as a new person to the sport that despite the fact that we have exchanged email, talked on the phone, and I did try to meet up with you while I was in BC (unfortunately the rest of the family only had limited time for trials)... It just seems whenever I post a question you take it as an opportunity to insult me and the WTC. I admit my frustration has got the better of me but just knowing that you are not able to speak o behalf of the CMA makes me feel much better... up to this point it seemed you kind of implied you knew way more than I did but you where not willing to share. knowing that you are simply not allowed to share your wealth of knowledge does go along way in explaining things. I will be happy to share anything that I hear from the CMA for anybody that is interested... despite Andy thinking that most are not (and he is probably right) .

Thanks Andy, Hi Steve, Yes I am still relatively new to the sport it has only been 6 years that I have been involved. I hope that helps you answer my question. If you like feel free to consider me totally new to the sport. If the answer to my question was on the CMA website I would not have asked. I had assumed that since you have been around much longer than I and have put on CMA events in the past you would know if there is a CMA fee involved but I am happy to give Marilynn a call it is now very apparent I should have simply called her in the first place. It is a little weird that you see yourself as welcoming new people to the sport.

I realize others have suggested this in the past but it really is a good read about how NATC worked with many different organization to bring forward a united trials group... http://www.mototrials.com/about/history-of-natc But to get back on topic if I decide to agree that joining the CMA is the only way to move this ahead. Would all our local riders need to pay $80 to join the CMA before we could hold CMA sanctioned events? Would there be any additional cost to the club to put on CMA events that would need to be folded into the entry fees? We only have about 25 riders and only 15 show up for events today so 15X$80 would be $1200 which isn't much money... we usually send the CMA TdN team $600 anyways. So as somebody sitting here with a cheque book can you please let me know what else it would take. This is not us against them this is just a fellow rider/organizer/promoter asking for an honest answer and a little respect from the head of the CMA TAC.

Who said riders are getting free bikes??? If we landed a trucking company as a sponsor would you assume I was getting the riders free trucks? Having sponsors is a great way to grow the sport instead of having the riders always covering the costs. This can lessen or eliminate entry fees which was what this topic was about. Let me be clear I have always said and continue to say the 2 groups should work together to grow the sport... I have no idea why this is seen as an us against them. Steve is the one that seems to think the WTC should just go away or am I really missing something? Stating that anything is a "farce" and then stating that is a fact is kind of silly don't you think? sounds a lot more like an opinion to me. Exactly what "information" has been given? seems to me when questions are asked statement like that are just to avoid answering the questions... Does the CMA charge clubs for putting on CMA sanctioned events? I honestly do not know the answer as I have never put on a CMA trials event. I fully understand if they are run differently than CMA hare scrambles which I have been involved in. Since this thread is about entry fees I feel it is a reasonable question.

Still unsure if clubs need to pay anything to the CMA be part of CMA or to put on CMA events. I will say that if as Steve refers to the WTC is 2 guys and a website... then by looking at the 2015 event calendars with large number of events running right across the country from NS to BC including a national championship. I would say that if I was the head of the CMA I would be working hard to include them and not continue to down play their accomplishments and insult them... just sayin. but this has been hashed out heavily under the Canada trials section of this forum. Back on topic I do think it makes a good point that regardless of the entry fee people like to understand where the money is going and what it is covering more so than the actual amount. This has much less to do with inflation.

Just asking if the CMA charges clubs when they put on events or do clubs have to pay into the CMA in addition to having its members all buy $80 memberships? WE - are the Maritime Trials Riders MTR - and we are affiliated with the WTC and NSORRA and WE put on free events and WE are asked our opinion when rule changes are made to the WTC rule book. WE are sponsored by BETA, SHERCO, and just recently HONDA. Maybe there is a bigger picture that I am missing but after 6 years of asking to be shown it I am starting wonder if there really is... although I am starting to get the idea that it may be coming and am really hoping it will be a beautiful thing.

Sorry Steve, I got the $80 from the CMA website http://canmocycle.ca/images/web/2016comp.pdf It seems they upped the fee for 2016 without letting you know. It is interesting to note that to join ACU it is just 10 pounds... $20 and typically things are about twice as expensive in the UK (based on my trip 2 weeks ago). I am not aware of any CMA events that do not charge an entrance fee. I do know that on the hare scrambles side of things we would have to pay additional insurance fees to the CMA when putting on events. Does the CMA not charge clubs for having a sanctioned trials event if so I am glad to hear that. I guess you could call me a "private promoter" as well as the club I run really isn't a club it is just a bunch of guys putting on trials events and riding in them. As they say in the UK "it's just a giggle" If that is laughable to you... laugh at us all you like but I don't see how that encourages growth in our sport. I am truly encouraged that the CMA Trials group led by yourself is making more progress than you ever have in the past and really am not trying to diminish that. I'm just saying that it is not currently having any affect on our local riders (besides knowing there are people out there who don't agree with what we are doing)

Hi Rabie, I believe your ACU is similar to our CMA as it is the only FIM affiliated organization in the country and covers a wide variety of motorcycle sports. The CMA requires riders to pay $80 to join plus the entry fees to each of their events. The closest event they put on is about 2,000km away. We also have a National group that does not have FIM affiliation but provides the same insurance coverage and its own rule book but it is all free thanks to its sponsors. Some feel putting on events for free is undermining the sport and all things FIM but we have been actually very good at collecting money to support our FIM TdN team directly instead of paying it to the CMA (which is a for profit organization). We are really too small locally to have anybody get too fussed over so we just do our own thing. It sounds like there is a big announcement coming about the CMA Trials council is working with the States for some cross border events which is very exciting news but I am guessing they will not be too much closer than the current offering for us on the East coast. I have also heard that the CMA is having some struggles so who knows what the future might hold. As noted earlier I don't think that paying entry fees turns people that are really interested away and I don't think even paying the riders would increase the numbers by all that much... for me it is more about providing the type of fun atmosphere that people want to be a part.

Insurance here does not consider trials to be a speed sport and therefor you can run an event under your clubs general liability the same as putting on a trail ride or a picnic. I can call up the insurance company (or send an email) letting them know the location and the name of the land owner so they are also covered and they send me a certificate for the day in question at no additional cost. We have worked hard with the insurance companies but it has paid off.

Our local ski hill just closed this weekend... very tempting .

Certainly is an interesting topic. I am not sure trying to figure out how prices have held up with inflation or the cost of other sports is overly relevant but I do think it is interesting to figure out what riding a trials event is worth to people. Unfortunately it is not that simple as events are worth different amounts to different people. There are people who are willing to pay to fly to Scotland rent a bike pay the entry fees to ride the SSDT and I am pretty sure the entry fee is the last thing they are thinking about. There are also people who won't even ride in a trials event if you paid them to. If you really want to ride a trials event enough to go out and buy a trials bike and start practicing regularly you would most likely pay what ever the price was (within reason). We have been putting on trials events for the past 6 years and don't charge the riders. We put on 5 events a year at different venues around the region typically 8 section 3 or 4 laps with 3 lines (Jr, intermediate and advanced). I really enjoy laying out sections and organizing the events it is all volunteer effort put in by people who enjoy the sport. It is actually a lot of work and there are travel costs, fuel costs, wear and tear on equipment, marking tape ..etc. There are countless hours involved but not really that much more than actually practicing for and riding in the events so to me it is just part of the sport. We have put on events where we have been paid to have the event as part of a show. At these types of events we pay the riders. To me this seems like a better way to run things, make it a good enough show that you get spectators and sponsors covering your costs instead of the riders. We do charge riders when we fly in a pro rider to do a training day but I feel people see the value in supporting that rider and covering his costs. Despite the training days being the only events that costs the riders they are the ones that get the most riders attending. So organizations are kind of stuck in setting what they are willing to pay or charge riders to ride in events and then figuring out where to get the funds from or where to spend them... You could just keep doubling the fees until people stop coming or keep doubling the pay until you got more riders. I bet the results would be you would see little effect the first and second time you doubled it. I would say there are very few that run events like a business and typically just charge what they have always charged with the fear of losing people. Which is why I feel trying to rationalize the fees against inflation has little relevance. Sorry for the long post... waiting for things to warm up so we can get our season started .

Yes it is crazy what a difference looking ahead makes it is darn near impossible if you look down .

Hi Gary, Welcome to the forum. Canada is a rather large country... We have a couple of TY riders here in the Maritimes any chance you are on this coast? Cheers, Michael

Well I didn't get to do any riding but given we were headed to London the latter part of the week family was very encouraging about me buying something .

It was a spin off of the WEC Word Enduro Canada, I agree the name could have been better thought through. People got fed up with the way the CMA was running things so decided to give people an alternative for enduro and trials. Some feel it splits a very small sport, others feel it gives us twice as many events to have fun at. Come on up and give both a try and see for yourself. As far as I can tell they are both great! I ride WTC as that is all we have here in the Maritimes. I also represent the WTC for the Maritimes and organize most of the events. I think we are a bit to small to have 2 organizations on the East coast so we went with the cheaper option. Might turn out to be a bad decision if my sponsor wants me to go pro and ride internationally one day (but kind of unlikely as I am 53 yr old intermediate rider) .

Great job Steve!!! Always fantastic to see Canadian trials in the news!

Can you post a video of what you are doing today?... it may help for making appropriate suggestions.

http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/news/gas-gas-rescued-spanish-firm-torrot/

Thanks that is very helpful. I hadn't thought of the Sammy Miller option that does sound good. I just heard back from my cousin and she is heading skiing later in the week so I will most likely head North to visit her then return to London for Saturday night and am warming the family up to the idea of doing a trials on the Sunday. My cousin has a couple of Aston Martins but funny enough didn't offer one up as a loaner to strap a trials bike to . Thanks for the offer of suggestions h62 but I seem to be flooded by ideas from friends and relatives as far as non trials things that I "must" see/do .

Yes I agree that getting to Scotland would be an adventure in itself, especially if I drove the whole way... but sometimes getting to a place is half the fun. Driving 12hrs with the family for a ski holiday is pretty typical for us so figured it was doable. After a little more thought if I'm going to Scotland it would be best to go for the SSDT so best to take Scotland off the plate for the time being. I do have a cousin in Yorkshire so that is probably the very furthest I would go. I am guessing that if I went to a riding school they would have all the kit so I wouldn't have to be carrying mine the whole trip which would be a big plus.

Thanks everyone! I would be willing to go as far as Northern Scotland not shy of a little snow . Sounds like the big question for me is it better to spend a day on training or actually doing an event. 25 mile lap and 50 sections sounds a little daunting... I can't see doing too many laps that size

Hi All, I received a little bonus at work and decided on a whim to take the family to the UK during the school break. We are leaving Nova Scotia on the 12th of March and catching the AMA SuperCross race in Toronto that evening then flying to the UK on the 13th. Landing in London and flying home on the 22nd. That is as much as we have figured so far. Before the family fills up the agenda with touristy stuff. I am hoping to make a bid for one day of trials related activity. I tried this last year when we flew to British Columbia but was only partially successful as was only able to squeeze in a quick visit to the GasGas importer (it was fun but I would have liked more time so I could have tried out a bike or 2 ) I am coming from NS where there is only one trials dealer and they sell about 1 bike a year. I started riding trials by buying a bike and putting on events at my place. I am 53 this week and have been riding trials for 5 years but am still a novice. We now put on 4 or 5 events a year and have about 12 riders who come to the events. I have never ridden outside of NS. So is there a bike shop, an event, a training day, a demo day, or anything else trials related that I should really try to fit into our visit to the UK? At this point I am happy to hear of options anywhere in the UK. Ideally there would be something near by that I could drop my family at as there attention span at trials related things is about 30 minutes . I did use a fair number of brownie points to squeeze in the SX race so figure one day is all I have left to spare at this point . Cheers, Michael

Congratulations !!! Sounds like a great choice... can't wait to hear how you make out with it. Be sure to take some pictures and video so you can share your progress .

Certainly nice to have choices in life... that sure is a good looking piece of kit. Almost as pretty as my Sherco