totalshell

having ridden p65 for 15 years your spot on woody there is no component scrutineering, the bike has only been safety scruntinnered 3 times ( all by the same same club at the same trial each year i asked the scrut why and he said he liked to admire the std of preparation especially of the twinshocks which he felt were often better than new condition) when i rode my first trial 15 years ago i turned up knowing no one with a rare for then bantam ( no other in the club) i was asked did it have the bottom frame loop and that was it.. never again except two polite reminders that gaitors should be worn! i see the rules as a guide that we should stick to as you say i hear no sniping just engineering curiosity and perhaps a little envy. at the end of the day the best riders win not those with lathes or large wallets. i find myself in niether of those groups but i do enjoy the trials more than the modern stuff where its all a bit more competative and seems all about wearing the latest gear, admitedly the bikes are a synch to maintain and get parts for and they ride a dream but if it aint a struggle it aint worth doing.. so p65 it is. i've spent the autumn and winter in the garage 'fiddling' and spending money yes to be competitive ( in clubmens class) and to keep up with the jones's and just to see if i could the results are here http://pre65trials.blogspot.com/ we wont win we wont finish last but we ll have a relatively cheap sunday out and have FUN!!!

if you were advocating a seperate class for brit shocks i would nt have an issue with that but from this last post i read that you are asking for ALL brit twin shocks run in the same class? so if i was a retired person capable rider ( which seems to fit most current p65 riders)would i A, build a bitsa from early seventies/ eighties bits and bobs lyin around the garage or in a mates shed or B, would i be straight out in the garage legs off my beta, hubs cast specially so i could use new tubeless rims etc for the front, i'd have an oil in frame front diamond and swing arm (with extra ovalising) with shock mounting points ala ossa climber from someone like armac a sub frame from titanium from my local bike shop ( painted up you'll never tell its not steel) rear gas coil over shocks with seperate reservoirs from AVO ( there only 175 each) 4 litre 1.5mm alloy tank (blowen out with air for the extra litre) and a luverly 250 motor from say upb with as much alloy /titanium as my early retirement pension can stand, a new d'lortto chuck on cnc yolks for fat bars and so sadly the picture of billy with no money and little engineering skill on his bitsa doing battle on an equal footing gets blowen out of the water when first one then 35 plan B's turn up.

i did mine a couple of years ago. i certainly took the bash plate off.. dont know if it HAS to but mine came off and went on with no real problems..

a young person may make a 'living' at trials, i suppose in the uk perhaps 5 riders might earn thier living riding trials, Dougie, Dibs, Brownie certainly anyone else who can support themselves 100% from riding? and if those hieghts are reached how long will that earning capacity last? 3,5 10 years? so if my son or daughter at 18 was in Joannas position i'd say ride if you want but you must continue the education .. difficult though it might have been she has made a sensible decsion

''said to be'' only one bike entered to press according to the entry list. i really hope it happens evry new manufacturer increase choice and competition. if they can have as successful start as ossa they could do well for sales in the uk perhaps a hundred bikes a year? all the best i'll be there to wave the brit flag.. when was the last time a brit bike entered the ssdt?

well if otf's new formula for brit twin shocks ( with cota sherpa and ossa bits) is as popular and as polarising as this thread it should run and run. it's even succumbed to sniping over poor spelling! and all this over the proposal for a new class. start a new class run the trials it makes not a jot of difference to the fact that the original class is called pre65 and it remians strong and vibrant, growing even in those clubs where it is promoted ( almost 200 rode in the various championships rounds of a previuosly mentioned club that allegedly attracts no one from outside its borders) to address a couple of issues that vex. As i stated to otf in an earlier thread ( only six weeks ago) at a time when 'new' amals were not available/ not consistant a democratic club took a view of pragmatism at the agm to allow an alternative carb, perhaps the time is right now to propose a return to brit carbs? the same club in trying to maintain a style of bike introduced a rule that forks should have gaitors as the majority did pre 65. and the membership agreed. most clubs stick to a brit theme with constituant parts and so although perhaps appearing inconsistant your 2011 cnc made in blighty yolks are okay and yet clearly your montesa cota yolks are not, despite there look alike similarities the rules of most clubs would prohibit them and yet with the rules readily available a number turn up with bikes with grey areas and as jack evidences they all get a ride in fact some clubs offer awards for the class. just because a class of bike has developed faster than its regulation and beyond the dreams of its founders does not make it wrong. the class was started to preserve and encourage the riding of british bikes and it has certainly done that. there are though a couple of thousand unused bikes in sheds, barns garages lying abandonded waiting for there chance. i'd hope that before cutting up an ossa or ty they were given another opportunity. no one has a right to ride a competative bike, if one is beyond your pocket you have to accept it and ride what you can if one is beyond your engineering skills you have to accept it and ride what you can if you want to build something from bits of bikes from near and far thats not a problem if you want to ride in a brit specials class not a problem if you want to ride that old heavy weight rigid that drips oil and weighs two ton thats not a problem.. theres room for us all on the sections

i have on the desk in front of me 'classic bike' magazine dated january 1983. it contains a SIX page article regarding the 'threat' to pre65 bikes from the introduction of b40's! the author non other than acknowledegd expert don morley. he even goes to the lengths of weighing std trials versions and comparing them to those used by works rides,a 60ilb weight saving is the norm with 70lb been the max saving and 50lb the least, he acknowledges the practice of works efforts cutting and shutting frames using yolks from other makes/ models he specifically mentions gorden jacksons 350ajs quoting 220lb contrasting that with a Comerfords cub at 226lb mention is made of the efforts to get all the works bikes that he tested for the article ( ajs, areil,b40,bb32/34, 350 re, 500 triumph) to have a wheelbase of 52.5 inches he clearly advocates swapping the forks to nortons for thier action whilst acknowledging the light weight of the re forks. he concludes the article with these very words.. '' the big bikes are still avaialable and can even be lightened or shortened to competitive status, if the owner is prepared to do what we actually did in those far off classic days and use a hacksaw. alternatively, owners who want to ride a pristine catalogue machinecan continue to do so at considerable disadvantage. that is there choice, and rather than banning b40's cubs, c15t's, and unit triumphs perhaps they should be placed in a different class''

so the only issues you have with the areil are the yolks and fork legs.. hardly top end performance enhancing are they.. equally the 'missing' fork gaitors arent going to sink the ship are they so how would a bike of this quality fare i your brit twin shocks.. simple just as well as it does in p65. how much cheaper would it be to build a bike in brit twin shocks to this std? not one penny. the most effective way of increasing ease of participation and reducing costs ( which i assume is the basis for your argument) is to have clear and concise rules. i would hold the p65 scottish rules this year for rigids as been the best example to date. i understand that your club is to host a round of the northern bike series, so why not use that as a position to ensure bikes are in the correct class and that going forward the classes have clear and consice rules. a std bike is cheaper than any special or bitsa it may not spin on a sixpence or climb everest but it should be able to compete on a par with similar bikes. i very much suspect that the adoption of rules similer to the p65 rigids would have the support of a large number of riders.

yea Billy Whiteman.. Greeves no other details declared

i dont think its been mentioned but there is a Greeves on the entry list!

british twin shocks isnt a 'new' class its an open specials class. yes i do have a vested interest i'm a member of the countries largest p65 club and at this years agm a proposal was made to allow twinshocks. i considered the proposal a fair point however after a lengthy and full and frank discussion with viewpoints from all directions heard and respected especially from those founders of the club and many riders from the 40's, 50's and 60's not one person voted for the proposal or abstained from the vote. the vote was unaimous against the proposal. the rules for pre 65 are diverse they lack continuity / universality and clarity they are though what we the riders have chosen, they do however provide us with a class where riders can make a choice of machine and purchase/ make such a machine. cost is an issue in all sports , trials costs money a new monoshock will set you back circa 5k and in a year will have lost

how is a bike where you can use what you want virtually a cheaper way to enter the sport than a cobbled together bantam etc. http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/BSA-D7-175cc-BANTAM-SUPER-1960-restoration-/150553731766?pt=UK_Motorcycles&hash=item230db3a2b6 -TYRES-UNUSED-/130479672526?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts&hash=item1e6131ccce http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Trials-mudguards-fit-Bultaco-Ossa-pre65-universal-ect-/150549183481?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts&hash=item230d6e3bf9 http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Trials-Yamaha-175-cc-Rear-Shocks-/220732264662?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts&hash=item3364ab10d6 http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/CLASSIC-MOTORCYCLE-TRIALS-TRAIL-SEAT-/120678005927?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts&hash=item1c18f83ca7 now chuck in some bars controls sprockets and chain and you 've very rideable bike for a lot less than a grand. why change the rules when you can have a genuine bike for that money.. no fiddle req.

thats the Ilkley Grand National on Middleton and Denton moors, still runs the last weekend in march, its a time and observation trial that has been running since 1927 and when the film was made used much of the original Scott trial route before it moved to North Yorkshire. It was re nowned for its boggy moor crossings and bad weather. the bogs may not be what they were but it still snows and rains..

after a couple of years under canves for the full week, ( and under water) i'm dragging the caravan up so it better rain a lot!

spot on.. the video makes it look very easy.. it isnt a LOT of practice and previous is req.

whats wrong with the scottish p65 rules for rigids... original frame no mods original engine etc etc.. too much 'free; in your vision otf for me. all you you'll end up with is new frames new hubs new forks and an engine that resembles something made before 1970.. not pre 65 as i'd want it.. and a lot more expensive than it is today a specials builders paradise.. back to basics withe the scottish rigid rules followed on by pre unit then unit then two strokes in 5 - 10 years everyone would be riding brit bikes again..

take your walking gear and a half decent map get the programme on sunday and you can see3 or more hills during the dau. i always go to new to me sections and something special always turns up each year, accomadation booked i'll see you there!

1 = oops 2 = could do better 3 = cant beat this one yet 5 = damn. you cant drop 3 'light' silly dabs in a section and claim that you rode it better than a centipede. 3 or more dabs means the section has won no matter how light your dabs.

welcome jim, your not restricted to just one club, rochdales ok moat of thier trials are in or near back cowm, try also darwen or bolton both have sensible beginner sections your almost in the best place in the world for trials make the most of it.. for help and advice i'd reccomend andy at pennine trials sport hes local to you and knows and rides trials.

the mtb analogy is a good one. to ride competatively in each would be about the same. push bike circa 3k trials bike 4.5 the trials bike will be as competative 3 years later if maintained, a push bike lasts a season of racing personal eqpt costs clothing footwear are comparable and parts wise cost of consumables and add ons do not differ widely. where the real difference lies and i've been there worn both jerseys is time commitment. regional std riders of push bikes will train 5 days a week minimum 3 hours a day plus gym etc and have a fairly strict diet. i dont suppose our regional trials experts do that mush on bike..

as well as the clutch arm hunt through the parts bins to find a lever with the most throw. and if poss a lever that has an adjustable position so you can set it just on biting point and is a comfortable reach for your finger.

what do you want to do with your time... if you want to spend two or three evenings a week in the garage tinkering and the rest of the week on the phone hunting for bits and riding the easy route on a sunday or do you want to ride, wash the thing put it away with a liberal coat of wd40 and pull it out next sunday morning to ride the easy route.. the head says modern the heart says a proper bike. ( fantic 200)

How much! i did complete package in 1990ish 4 days training tests hire bike 125 all in..

welcome here http://www.yorksclassictrials.co.uk/#/rules/4543226075 and here http://www.redroseclassictrials.org.uk/regulations.html and hee http://www.poacherspre65trials.co.uk/club_rules.htm so thats at least 64 trials a year you could enter in.