mich lin

Ishy, glad we agree on the bike formula. It could help save motorized recreation and get people off race bikes and onto a greener, lower impact motorcycles. Working with the forest service and the federal government is tough! The future of the sport will perhaps be on private land with events like your Wendsday night events and the Bill Markem organized ITS winter and summer series. PITS has been on the forefront of this trend by buying their own property, from the profits from their world round. They also have favored club status at places like Frank Raines state park because of their excellent self policeing like you mentioned the PNTA does. For our club to get into the national forest is almost impossible! We have had better luck with the BLM, who likes us a lot but the places we end up tend to be like garbage dumps and areas that when trials are organized there the number of stolen cars abandoned and the gang shootings tends to go down for the few hours we are there. It does make the illegal alien gardeners mad, they can't dump yard clippings there nearly as easy when trials people are there. I suppose you can't make everyone happy!

Sam, I agree with your larger top class concept! How this could be done and have harder sections for good measure than we have now is using the foremat they use for the ladies world championship. They have easy morning sections that everyone can ride, then the best of the preliminary sectons transfer to the finals. In the finals the sections are very hard but only the best ladies must ride them. This gives all the riders an overall placing for the year, yet tests all riders to their limits without being a danger to anyone. There is no reason we could not adapt this to the US men's nationals. We would have 50 or 60 riders getting a national ranking. Yet the very best men would be riding harder sections than they are on now.

Jive, just because your always good for a rise! Here goes in defence of City. Citytrials was referring to the world rider interviews here, the question was would you prefer world peace or personel success at winning the world championship. They all chose winning over world peace. This is interesting. Maybe that was my downfall in trials and Geoff's? I would answer that question world peace! For example when I had Bernie on the ropes in 78 and the 4th US title was my sights if only I stood my ground. I gave Bernie the parts needed to fix his bike and refused to protest his outside assistance. Which allowed him to continue, win his first national title, then win the world title in 79. I went home afterwards and remained a privateer forevermore. A year later, when I needed a piston to do the 1980 Championship, he refused to give me his spare! That's why he was a winner and I was not! He took care of # ONE. Now Geoff is a lot like me, he just dosn't have the killer instincts that he needs to beat the world's best. Yet I believe he has the talent and would be world champion if he had the drive. Geoff is a big fish in a small pond. He dose not have the fight to bring the US riders up to a world level. Part of why our riders are not compeditive in world rounds is Geoff! He sets low expectations for our pro class, often he won't even enter the US world round. In his defence he's a good businessman! He has a good business doing his nationwide live show at tractor pulls, monster truck events and as a sideshow at Supercross and AMA nationals. He has realized young that he dosn't want to be world champion and simply wants to ride and make money doing it.

Really the FIM should require in the future minimun seat and gas tank size to make the bikes good trail bikes again and look like other motorcycles. It would be what's best for the sport and the manufacturers because it would boost bike sales. More events would come when there are more people interested in trials. When there is a market for events the demand could be filled by professional organizers who are interested in makeing a buck. That's how MX became more popular, organizers built tracks to earn money. Trials needs to follow the more professional lead of MX. No sport can survive with all volenteer labor! A sport that can only be done a few times a year will never become anything but an obscure fringe sport. Also consider, would you rather have a bunch of people racing around the woods and deserts on MX machines or trials bikes? What will have greater noise volume and enviromental impact?

Gee, I thought North Yorkshire should be part of the USA? Alan, why are you only bringing Ringo over for a soft drink? You have the best breakfast anywhere, why not have him over for some bacon and eggs?

HeyBagger, Ringo is the loyal opposition! Without competition you have no horse race. It would be like winning a national championship without any real contenders competing against you. How hollow of a victory would that be?

lol Ringo, we really need a press bib for Ringo at this years US world round! After all he's one of the World's top internet Trials bloggers now.

Good point ishy! It has also been noted, why buy a bike in the US when you can only Compete 7 to 12 times a year? Compare that to GII who can ride 35 to 40 trials a year within one hours drive of his house.

Speaking of muchkins, I worked with the actor who played the head of the lollypop guild on a movie called Monstersquad. He was about 60 years old at the time and we used him to double a 5 year old girl. He looked really funny wearing a dress and smoking a cigar! As for the Supermodels, not my type! About 6foot 2inches tall and maybe 110 pounds. I believe girls should have curves!

Dman, your post hits the nail on the head. 7 to 12 trials a year! We need at least 50 a year close to home in each area of the USA. In England a rider can do at least 52 per year with much less driving than you. If you are willing to drive a few hours I bet you could ride almost a hundred trials a year in England.

Mail entries are an excellent way of reducing the number of entries, we use that method for enduros in the USA. The Scottish Six days also is by mail entry only, imagine if you could just show up at the Scottish and ride! How many entries would they get? Maybe 500 or more! To ride a trial in the USA you will drive between 2 to 4 hours each way for a close one. There will be somewhere between 25 to 60 riders competing in 5 or more classes. Each class having differnt gates for their route in the sections. In our state we can ride about 1 trial a month unless we want to drive 6 or more hours each way for more events. If we are willing to drive extreme distances we could ride maybe 2 or sometimes 3 a month a few times a year.

You guys won't have to watch out for the riders from the other side of the pond, they ride a differnt course than the Americans! What will happen when they actually have to ride WITH THEM?

Sorry Ringo, I'm working right now with a bunch of supermodels doing a jenes photoshoot. So Broke Back mountain is out for now! Maybe another time? We did go see Aventures of Narina last night, great movie. Helps me keep my English accent! cleanorbust, how about sending some of those riders to the states? We could use the extra riders!

Again Ringo, your the best! You started a really good topic and it has brought out most of the issues on the subject of American's breaking back into world trials. Interesting conversation needs appossing views. Without people like you, Ishy and Ridgerunner there would be no differnt perspectives on things. Thanks guys but especally to you Ringo! Hope you feel better soon! Have you started rehab yet for that knee?

Ringo, your the best! Congratulation Shane for breaking into the big time. How you going to keep him down on the farm, now that he's seen..............

Ringo, that's also the definition of insanity. Besides this is also about having the longest tred in the history of trialscentral, just to prove we do have an interest in this topic " US world round contenders". Some of us believe, some of us don't that Americans can win again. It's difficult to convince anyone one way or another on anything, what they believe they believe! You have to admit we covered some great material here, Some really great comments have been submitted. That alone was worth the effort. In the end, Those who can win, will! Those who cannot won't or they will simply invent a class for themselves at the next NATC meeting. We see that our US sport is one of the few in the world where a bunch of middle aged men think they ride well. Get factory sponsorship and consume most of the US rider support. That was the point in your first post, sponsorship! In the USA most of the sponsorship funds are used up by middle aged men in their age group national championships. So there is not much left for the youngsters wanting to be the next Bernie. These kids soon get discouraged and drop out of the sport, while the old guys simply come back year after year hunting for their next old guy national title. Go to my first post and you understand everything I believe about winning. In Trials, in life in eternity! I agree with you about money, go to a Supercross and it shows you in an instant why Moto Cross is king in the USA. Go to a national trial and you will fall asleep watching or hanging around the pits. Nobody would come to supercross if they had age groups for the riders! People go to see the best, they come to race to compete against the best. The public responds to the atmosphere, the youngsters and their parents buy bikes and go racing to be part of it and maybe the next famous and rich factory star. Trials did offer that at one time in the USA, Not today. Ridgerunner said it best, the NATC has built an Oldsmoble.

citytrials, it's good to see Shan at SX! We made round one and had a blast, I'm also 5 dollars richer with RC winning, who I had bet on this week. Going to Supercross is a good eye opener for trials riders. The professionalism, commitment and intensity of the competition is on par to what it takes to win the world trials championship. Current US trials puts the fighting sprit to sleep in our riders! At Supercross you can see that will to win everywhere, even with the back of the pack riders. It's little wonder that youngsters perfer Motocross to trials! They go to supercross and see a future, a chance to be a star and earn a fortune. If trials could offer just a little of that hope for success, I bet it would attract a lot more youngsters and their familes.

Gee Wiz, I have to be politically correct, I don't want to be banned again! Simply, when you have a losing or JV team, few people are really interested until you break into the finals for the big leagues. Who follows a losing baseball, football or raceteam? Not many! When USA trials had riders scoring in and winning world rounds the general motorcycle population was much more interested in the sport. Today nobody follows US trials much, no global impact with our riders so there is not much to write about in the papers or magazines. No home team to cheer for! Ask yourself this, do 95% of American trials riders NOT care that Bernie won the world title? Would they not care if another American had a shot of winning the US world round this year? I believe they would and would be pulling for the American more than one of the European or Japanese riders. It would give the press more to cover, bring in more spectators and create more of a buz for the sport of trials, having US contenders. Today we have a group of riders who will not even start the USGP, much less have a shot at winning it. Maybe that's why the clubs are showing signs of folding up? Lack of publicity for the sport at the top levels of the game. People like winners! Think about how much good publicity trials would have had if Geoff Aaron had won the Eudurocross instead of crashing out?

Wayne, I really don't want to reveal the cards in my hand just yet, I don't know how the game will unfold for certain. Your right that Lance Armstrong proved that it is possible to overcome the European sport fortress and with amazing style as Lance did. He also overcame amazing personel adversaty, he's an American superstar in a European sport which is hard to do. We would be wise to follow his lead! What has been under the radar is the work I've done with the Califorina Youth Trials team. I've been working with them for a few years now, have build a culture of winners and have been tempering them for quite a while. Our oldest rider is Andrew Oldar and we have won every Trial De State so far and a string of national youth championships in wide age groups. So watch out! Also most people forget the work we did with Debbie Evans! Bringing her out of an 18 year retirement to finish 8th in the world. Then her scoring the first offical FIM world championship points by an American since Ryan Young in the 1980s. She's also the oldest rider ever to score world championship points for trials. Our goal with Debbie was to show that an American could get back in the world championship points and on the podium "box" again in Europe. I believe we did that with great style and set some records that will be very difficult to beat. Plus we learned a lot and met some great contacts in Europe. The rider that impresses me most outside of SoCal is Patric Smage, I'd like to adopt him into our team! No single rider has impressed me outside of SoCal as much as him.

dman, your right! I do have faith in Patrick and imagine he could break the mold!

Now, after some thought Ishy, I don't want to be too hard on you. I like you, your always good for a beer or two and a good bench race. Are you speaking like the glass is half full or half empty? I simply can't tell your tone in your post, is it negative or positive! In extreme sports being sick is being really good and yes I would need help, lots of help to put USA back on the map as a world round contender. Nobody could do that by themself. It would take a whole trials community like we had last time we pulled it off.

Ishy, your one sarcastic Yorkshire import. With a side that has a spark of pure genius. Your 125cc class win at the Scottish was brilliant! That's your possitive side, Your negative side, is what you just showed.

If you go back and read my very first post on this topic, it really says everything about the topic of Americans in world round competition. The majority of this generation of US Pro riders have NO HEART for the battle for world championship points. Really this topic should be, how to change that! As long as this is the prevailing mindset, this generation of riders is doomed to 2nd class riding levels. It takes a majority culture of really wanting to excel against the world's best to really have that impact at the world championship. One individual cannot create that atmosphere alone in the country. Unless we can create a similar atmosphere like we had in the USA during the time frame of the Michigan world round. Where 6 of the top 10 finishers were from the USA and the Europeans could barely score points on our turf. Our results will be very poor compared to a world championship standard. I've been through this process before, Fought the fight in the trenches and took my licks. Scored some world round points, had some success and some failures. Then was there when one of our own peers took the world title and cheered for him and the USA. If you guys want my imput on how we did it, great! I'll offer it free of charge. If you would rather reinvent the the wheel and do it yourself, go for it and knock yourself out.

The rider vote was taken, the results were clear, ride down a line by the US Pro riders was what the majority wanted. This sends a clear signal to all of us, they don't want to compete with the world's best, even with the home court advantage! Chris to his credit, wanted to ride the world round but a vote is a vote and according to dbrown, the US Pro rider majority were in favor of not riding with the men they will ride against at the TDN. This takes away our most important and cheapest rehersal for next years TDN A class debut. Its simply common sense that our best shot at the European and Japanese riders, is at the American World Round on home turf! To pass on this oppertunity and to vote to NOT RIDE simply proves my point without a shadow of a doubt. What generation is Cody Webb in, the old or the new, that's a good question? That choice will be his, if he rides the US world round in the 125cc class, the stepping stone to the World Championship,then goes to Europe to contest more 125cc world rounds, he's the first of the new generation. If he rides the US Pro class instead of the US World round, he's the last of the old generation! What age is he anyway? 125cc age or Jr World Championship age? We commended him for his up coming efforts to ride in Europe. We also have made that effort and understand the finatual burden of the undertaking. It takes total commitment for success because the Europeans run a tough contest and give the impression they don't like Americans showing up to compete. Now we simply wait and see, will Cody ride the US world round or the US Championship? That will answer our question if he is really a serious US world round rider of the next generation? Or simply part of the old guard following in the footsteps of the old guard with no world round hopes!

fivemeister, cute bike! My duel shock is a 1977 Bultaco, it carries about 1 1/2 gallons US of fuel and has the plushest seat. In fact it is more comfortable than my Yamaha YZ400 was. It makes a great trail bike, just like your Fantic will. I agree with Brandon that no seat and the micro fuel tank of the modern bike is one of the major reasons for trials dropping in popularity. The FIM really should step in and make a rule forcing the manufacturers to bring back the seat and big gas tanks on trials bikes. I bet if they did, a lot more trials bikes would be sold, which benifits everyone. Consider this, if everyone had to have a seat and bigger tank, nobody would be at a disadvantage at the world championship. The top riders or the manufacturers would never make this move without everybody doing it at the same time. They simply wouldn't give away the small advantage there is in having a teeny tiny fuel tank and no seat. If everyone was required to comply with a minimum gas tank size and seat rule everyone would be much better off. Really this rule would make more sense than the 4-stroke only rule the FIM is going to have for the world championship soon.