mich lin

Just an observation from another sport. Bicycle moto cross uses a "double points" event concept for some championship rounds to attrract more entries. All finishing positions recieve double the normal number of championship points that a regular championship round would award. To promote European entries to non-European rounds the FIM could do the same and award double world championship points for away from Europe rounds. Far away places like Japan, USA, Guatamala, Australia or anywhere else they wanted to promote new venues and attract entries. For example, if a normal finishing position awarded 20 points, at a double points round it would award 40 championship points.

Thanks to Chuck Weir and the AMA for the letter of apology for not including the youth age group national champions at the AMA Sports Banquet. It was a big evening and one where oversights can happen. the kids were disappointed not being brought up with the senior adult group winners. They are tough at that young age and chances are they have not given it much thought since then. Your letter is greatly appreciated, it was a great evening.

Alan, How did I prove myself wrong! I never proposed a 125 championship at an NATC meeting in the early 80s. That's the facts. Yes there was a 125cc 250cc US national championship series organized with AMA blessings. "Without the help of the NATC." But it was not proposed at an early 80s NATC meeting. It was an independent series from the NATC which is simply a few clubs who work together with the AMA. Anyone could create a national series without the NATC as long as the AMA gave it's blessings.

You didn't get it wrong Ishy my friend, it was who ever was trying to give you the history lesson. That was a long time ago and I have no grudge with the NATC anymore. I'm not in the trials business any longer and don't plan to be, so I have no dog in this fight any longer. I even kind of like the sportsmen programs. Maybe the NATC would consider a balance of both keeping the sportsmen fun and trying to build a winning TDN team, another American World champion and selling more bikes? A win/win program! Consider trials might die if new riders are not introduced to this great sport. Young blood is important! Bottom line here is that this is old news and not worth our time to rehash it all again.

It's pure bunk that I pushed a 125cc class at an NATC meeting in the early 80s. Never happened! Yes it is true that I was involved in the AMA sanctioned Montesa US Championship 125cc/250cc series and helped organize it. It would have never happened however without Fantic, Montesa and the American Motorcyclist Assn. It was done for a very simple reason, in response to the no growth policy adopted by the NATC leadership! The NATC made it clear at one meeting that they didn't want the sport to grow but get smaller. Some people including a few importers and myself didn't like the idea of a no growth policy for trials. Today, there is only a handful of those no growth people still left at the NATC. The good news is that the OLD GUARD of NO GROWTH as a national policy are dropping out of the NATC, most do not ride anymore. Today we see a very large group of people and importers who support trials growth. The 1980s 125cc national championship was only to buck the NATC and show them an AMA sanctioned championship for trials could be done without them. Like it could be today, in fact somebody could take over part of or the whole US national series if the AMA supported the new organizers over the NATC Today we only want a 125cc national championship to prepare our youngsters for success for future world competition. It was the NATC leadership policy that they didn't want US riders to be able to compete on a world level anymore. They got exactly what they wanted, no US world round riders! Some of us disagree with that policy. I believe in selling more trials bikes and winning the TDN and WTC. The NATC in the past didn't want that, today we hope most of them do.

Only 140 bikes a year! Wow your team is tuff considering the tiny number of riders you have. Say, Why can't all the former British colonies like Canada, USA and OZ combine into one TDN team? The point I'm making is that the Euros get over 80% of the rounds,its little wonder they win the championship. Most of us can't afford to travel to the world rounds, even if one of our riders was the best. When you think of it, you have to give Fugi credit for pulling off a world championship. Being that he's from half way around the world like us.

Costs us the same to go either direction!

First off, let me give you a big thanks for giving us the Americas Cup back. Next, I've always enjoyed your TDN team, you are a fun bunch. Question, why is there no OZ round of the world trials championship? The contenent of Europe hosts over 80% of the world trials championship. Why not spred the rounds around a little more? I've been to Sidney, there is some great trials riding mountains just outside of the city. You guys could do a really great world round. What's the story?

With the help of Works Performance I've worked up a new rear shock. It has more shaft travel which allows more wheel movement off the rubber bumper. It also has a twenty position rebound damping ajustment.

Cheers mate, No big four strokes then Ah! Sorry for the confusion but we're Yanks and have had trouble with the rules going all the way back to 1776. Our AMA, the ACU of the USA allows big four strokes into motocross, so it's understandable that some of us would expect big 4 strokes in 125cc trials. No 250cc 4 strokes allowed in world competition!

I was simply wondering IF the FIM even allows bigger 4T bikes into the 125cc world championship?

Well Ringo on second thought, maybe I'd rather stay down at the lodge with my fake cast and drink Hot toddys with the snow bunnies. Don't want to tangle with the locals only croud.

There has been a question if 250cc four strokes should be allowed to compete agaisnt 125cc two strokes in a US 125 Trials Championship? Similar to what we see in American Moto-cross competition where 250cc 4 strokes can compete in the 125 moto cross class! I suppose that the FIM has to be consulted on that question! Can a 250cc four stroke trials bike compete in the 125cc world trials championship? If they can then it only makes sense that in a US 125cc championship that we also allow bigger four strokes in the contest the championship. If it's not allowed by the FIM then we need to follow their lead and conform with international standards.

It was mentioned on another tred about a past 125cc US national championship, this is true. It was first organized along with the MOTA "Michigan Ontario Trials Assn" North American Championship in 1972 and 73, these events had an open class and a 125cc class. When the first NATC meeting was held in early 1974 at Yamaha USA there was discussion of keeping the 125cc class along with the open class. Remember that MX in those days had 3 classes, 125cc 250cc and 500cc and it was considered very normal to segrigate bikes into displacement classes in the USA. Why the 125 class was dropped was simply a desire to partern our new US Championship series as close to European rules as possible. 125cc bikes simply didn't have their own class in the World Championship at that time. In around 1982 the US Fantic importer and the US Montesa importer sponsored an AMA sanctioned 125cc and 250cc US National Championship series called the Montesa Championship series. Which was outside the umbrella of the NATC US open class championship. Yet had full blessing from the American Motorcyclist Assn. We must remember that in those days a lot of the bikes were Jumbo motored machines. Fantic and Montesa both had excellent small bikes and perhaps that's their reason for supporting the series. Today there is again an interest in 125cc machines simply because of the new 125cc world championship. Why 125cc machines you may ask, simply it's because of European traffic laws that require young riders to stay on smaller machines until a certain age. Are smaller machines better to learn on? To be honest I'm not really sure but many people swear by them as the best learning tool. I do know that it's difficult for a rider to switch back and forth between a 125cc bike and a 250cc or 290cc and ride as well as someone who is always on one size bike. So it makes sense that if a young rider wants to become world champion, he would be wise to stay on a 125cc machine. That's really the only legitimate reason for interest in a new 125cc class for the USA Championship. To keep us with the same rules as the Europeans, the exact reason we dropped the class in 1974! A US 125cc class would also give an incentive for youngsters to stay on a 125cc bike. Then peak his skills on the 125 instead of jumping up to a 250cc or 290cc machine sooner than the Europeans. Simply, riders on the 125cc machines will have the option of several years of world championship competiton under their belts before the riders who move onto the larger bikes will. Unless of course they can afford a 125 and a full size bike at the same time but then they still face the disadvantage of bike swapping! In my view, I'd rather not have to deal with the 125cc bikes, in fact I voted against the class in 1974. Today however we find ourselves being forced to rethink the 125cc class only because the FIM has adopted age and displacement limitations on young riders. Again, like in 1974 we have to decide if we follow the rest of the world's rules and this time adopt the 125cc class or do we go our own way this time around and say we don't care how the heck they do it in Europe?

Actually Ishy, an offical combined 125cc and 250cc AMA trials national championships was organized one year outside of of the NATC. So a national trials championship has and can be organized without the NATC. I believe the NATC does a great job, they are becoming much more responsive and there is little need to work outside the NATC again. But not out of the question.

Alan, I'm just being flexable, I'd rather not slice the pie even thinner but that appears to be what the NATC wants, so I'm willing to compromise. Actually you guys have given me several ideas already for next years proposals, Thanks, you guys have helped a bunch.

Thanks biff for the intellengent reply, I like your NASCAR analagy. Your right that NASCAR has both a ton of local tracks and big super speedways where sportsmen or Pro racers can compete, they just don't mix them. We on the other hand in the NATC have batched both the amatuer riders along with the Pros all at one national. Football is also run like Nascar, you would never see high school football players and Pros mixed at the same event.

Barcota, we agree I don't know it all! I happen to be an inquisitive type of person and when I see something I don't like I'll ask myeslf what I can do to make it better, then take action. What I did is take action, that's why I respect what Ringo did so much, he stepped up to the plate and rode the Endurocross. There is a very long list areas where our team has taken action for this sport, sorry you don't enjoy or approve of them as much as I do.

That was a great place for a TDN for sure Peter. It's hard to beat Northern Italy. Sorry, about that beer, I was hoping to dodge you and wait for a better exhange rate another year. The trick is on me, our dollar has fallen like a rock and that beer is now going to cost me even more. Beave

Thanks Ringo, I feel better now! Just don't let me catch you on the slopes this winter up on the mountain. You will think the Endurocross bar banging was kindergarden. By the way, my run is on the Bear, Geronamo and Showtime, my turf, stay clear. Beave

barcota, couldn't disagree with you more. I didn't break any rules, had a blast riding the two trials and wanted more. I simply didn't score any points because of the 10 event minimum rule. But that's old news, I'd rather not discuss it any longer and move on. I would like to see the NATC award national points to Smage and the Irish champion for their less than 10 round finishes. They deserve them! The 10 round rule is dumb and if it had been in place when Bernie rode, most of his national championships would never have happened. That rule also gets in the way of another US world champion contender. A rider should be allowed options!

Pete, couldn't agree with you more at a world round indoors or outdoors. I'm glad to see the indoor trials championship getting so much TV coverage. Maybe the top men will start to make a better living. Our US nationals are honestly a participant sport! They are designed for our sportsmen riders and their entry fees pay the bills of the organizers and the national organizing body. They are well organized fun events catering to the slightly above average clubmem level rider. It's works well and has kept the series running for over a quarter of a century.

Peter, your right I did steal the idea from the women's world championship! You didn't have to blow my cover did you? Say what are you doing on our accross the pond page anyway? The Pacific is not considered a pond is it? Your 100% right that youth riders HAVE to be on 125cc bikes to ever hope to compete with the EU riders at the WCT. Just to clear up the proposal for everyone, the finals would be bonus sections on and above the full course that everyone now rides. We have used this system successfully for 30 years at the El Trial De Espana. It works great and I was very surprised to see it adopted at the ladies world championship but it makes sense. I think the mistake made in this proposal on my part was the suggestion of dropping the high school class in favor of a 125cc class. Next year I'm resubmitting these proposals with everyones suggestions and imput. Next time I'm requesting a whole new class allowing the NATC to keep both their new grade school class and the high school class. Peter, by the way, are you the Aussi that I owe the beer?

I know the Brit lads are good, I'd like to give our best youngster a shot at them. Letting Patrick ride underage at the 06 US world round is not out of the question in my mind. The E.U. youth riders have such an unfair advantage over the riders in the rest of the world. The United States of Europe hosts all the world rounds but two, the United States of America round and Japan. The E.U. riders simply don't have to travel as far as the rest of us. Why can't the FIM allow non E.U. youth riders a little helping hand to level the playing field? It would only be fair if U.S., Japanese, and other non-E.U. riders could start earlier than the riders from the E. U. that host all the rounds but two. Provided they are not breaking any local traffic laws riding without a valid drivers licence. Our event is on private land and no public roads will be used, which means there really is no good reason not to let Patrick Smage ride the 06 125cc U.S. world round. Exhibition of course, not for points. What do we need to do to make this happen? I know Bernie was allowed to ride the US world round at age 14 under these conditions, as an exhibition rider. Why not Patrick Smage?

Could there be a massive shootout of future champions at this years American World round? That's really the question I'd like to ask, could 06 be the year of first blood? There is a very good chance "Wiggy" as he's known, will make his first world championship appearance in the USA at the TCC American round. He's Britans hope to replace Dougie Lampkin as the man flying the union jack in world trials. He's the rider any American will have to beat to be world champion. Is Patrick Smage of age yet? Now that's the question of the hour? Patrick is our next and brightest hope for a future world champion from America. Could Smage take down Wiggy? Now that would be the shoot-out of the decade. Now if Smage is not of age yet, would Wiggy be willing to allow Smage into the competition to see who's the best? Even if its only as an exhibition rider! Beave