I would dearly love to take up your offer - but sadly my days of walking, let alone trying to set up sections, are long behind me.
However, there remain plenty of current riders who rode in my original series that regularly reminisce with me about the old sections - and maybe some of them could be persuaded.............
As far as Charlie is concerned he is a mere strippling, only just seventy, so he has years of catching up with me............
Incidentally, one of the reasons that I keep pushing people to have a look at ORRe is simply because I know I am one of the last generation of publishers who were actually active in trials and scrambles - as well as knowing personally many of the stars at the time - so I can report with every faith that I am using personal certainty and genuine experience to make it accurate fact.
But the day will come, hopefully not soon, but so many of my contemporaries are no longer with us that I am regularly aware that one day all the experience and knowledge that I have will die with me and be lost forever if I don't push on and get it on t'internet as a permanent record.
When I was awarded my Millennium Medal - along with my dear friend and colleague, Ralph Venables - for 'services to motorcycling journalism', I made a personal resolve to create a 'Reference Library of Offroad Motorcycle Sport'. So far it sits at 36 volumes, 180+ pages, 2000+ photographs, the majority full page - and counting. Better yet, it is non-commercial - so NO space WASTED on advertising.
And here is another offer - anybody seeking help or information on the historical facts of events, machines or people - use the email reference on this posting ANDASK...........
Enjoy
Deryk
PS. Many thanks for taking the trouble to spell my name correctly.
Some late night sniffing of the old Castrol oil bottle methinks.........
Sorry Hamish,
Don't bother with bottle - it doesn't work when the 'R' is raw...........just pop a teaspoonful in the petrol tank and start the engine.........now, breathe deeply and the memories come flooding back.
If you are a Bultaco enthusiast and would like to see lots of images of Bultacos in action over the years, then our digital magazine must be worth consideration.
Not only do you get abundant images of Yrjo Vesterinen, for example, in current classic action with the Red Rose Classic club, but also historical images of many of the stars in action over the years, like the attached one of Yrjo riding in the 1983 British round of the world series. The best difference, there are no distracting watermarks in ORRe - and if you are a subscriber you are welcome to copies of the images.
The discussion is descending to ludicrous dissension over the age, specification, eligibility, etc., of the machines whereas I thoroughly understand the basic economics which are distorting the current classic trials scene by creating totally false classes simply because the basic rules of machine eligibility that we had and worked thoroughly well have been allowed to lapse, such that now there are vast numbers of machines, many created by spending a kings ransom for light alloy components, and suspension improvements relying totally upon new technology that wasn't even available in the day they purport to represent.
But I know that none of that is going to change, the machines are not going to be scrapped overnight just because of some rule change - because another club will 'allow' the allegedly banned machines and the riders will flock to their events.............
However, I also know that there are plenty of machines that do not see the light of day because clubs have set mickey-mouse, twisty-turny sections that anyone on a genuine bike could not manage. Precisely the situation that we met in 1972 when we organised the first British Bike trial because we couldn't afford to buy an expensive Spanish model and bring up a young family.
The only difference in our trial was that we set the sections with the markers in the same place that they would have been before 1965...................and that is all that I am suggesting for a Traditional trial. Where people with old bikes dare bring them without risking life or limb - or bike damage - then the talented riders on an old nail will still beat an idiot on a million dollar bike - and all will be well in the world - BECAUSE WE'LL GET MORE BUMS ON SADDLES.
If you would like to see full page photographs of SWM trials models in action (but without the watermark), like this one of M Ell taken during a recent Bath Classic trial, then become a member of the ORRe clan...........
If you would like to see full page photographs of Honda trials models in action (but without the watermark), like this one of J Lye taken during a recent Bath Classic trial, then become a member of the ORRe clan...........
If anyone has photographs taken on a modern digital camera of this event that I could use, I will happily do all the pre-press work and put a comprehensive Photoreport in our digital magazine - please drop me an email to 'offroadrevue@gmail.com' and we can set it up.
Whilst I was in Cyprus doing my National Service there were a lot of Norman twostrokes out there in very regular use - indeed it was almost the main bike one ever saw.
Having grown up close to Leeds, and attended school there, I cannot recall the shop in Leeds to which you refer, certainly not as a dealership. It may well have been a small second-hand shop that sold bikes.
Anyway with the help of old friends in the area we have started to trawl through Centre Handbooks of the 1960's to see if there is any mention. The main dealers in Leeds were Watson-Cairns in Briggate who held AMC and BSA main dealer status and opposite them Jenkins who had the Triumph franchise. Sporting dealers in the area were C. Wylde & Son in Roundhay (no relation to me, sadly) plus a shop in Hyde Park, whose name eludes me, who sold DOT bikes.
Nearby, of course, was Colin Appleyard and also Ray Dell, for whom Peter Gaunt worked. Fletcher's were mainly cars but Peter also sold bikes.
I personally don't get to any events anymore, I have strictly limited walking ability plus I am the sole carer for my disabled wife - but I have the ability to carry on the independent publishing activities I have done for many years.
That being the case, with the help of friends and colleagues I am fully prepared to spend some time and energy supporting all forms of motorcycle sport - but NOT if there is very little real interest in ALL those aspects here on this forum.
However when I include some images of Pre-65 Scrambling, for example, I get floods of enthusiastic emails - even though the name 'Trials Central' hardly suggests scrambling interest!
That is why, since many of the commercial publications seem to be reducing their support for the youth movement I posed the question on the forum.
However I did compile the report from information given by my colleague, Barry, with whom I have worked for very close to fifty years - and we are still happy to combine our activities for the good of the sport.
Just one question why did you build the front brake with the torque arm working under compression ? I have always understood that this is a no no and torque arms should always be working in extension. Just wondering
I agree with otf,
My understanding with torque arms was that under extreme braking they could fold - disaster - whereas under tension it needed a lot more force to pull the metal apart or tear it...........
We always used to fit the wheels such that the pull on the brake actuating lever on the hub was against the direction of motion, so when it began to bite it pulled the brake on harder if there was any slack in the system - there were those who fitted it in the opposite sense, preferring overall softer braking............
In the Youth Trials forum - the same one that this topic is in - The 2015 Oset UK A-CU Class B/C/D Youth Trials Championship, a review compiled by Barry Robinson and Deryk Wylde.
Or are you saying that you don't count a 1300 word report plus photographs of all the award winners in those classes is a Review?
To give you some idea of the potential - how about this as an entry for a trial, the Yeadon and Guiseley Championship round at Dob Park last year attracted no less than eighty-four entries..........
Following our Review of the 2015 B, C and D Youth Championships on this forum, there is an opportunity for greater photo and report coverage of the youth trials scene - but it will take significant time and effort.
If you would be interested to see improved coverage, either post a comment or, better yet, simply press the 'Like This' button on this post in order to help us decide.
I wonder if any of the old organisers of the Tuck Cross Memorial trial in the Mendips are still around? They had some ideal sidecar land and a lot of support that understood sidecars and used to set some cracking sections that suited the chairs as well as giving a good ride to all the old solos..............real TRAD trials!
Here is a view of Dave and Steve Burdge in the 1999 Tuck Cross, a Photoreport also appears in ORRe.
I'm fairly sure aawill can remember those sections, and I know Doug and Sue will.
The 2015 Oset UK A-CU Class B/C/D Youth Trials Championship, a review compiled by Barry Robinson and Deryk Wylde
In 2015 there were seven rounds for the contenders of Classes B and C in the Oset A-CU British Youth Championship. Reviewing the series there were, to all intents and purposes, four front runners regularly featured and the same can be said about the six Class D championship events. No one could dispute that Billy Green and Jack Dance were the Class C boys in the limelight last year and with another four victories this year, up to the final event at Bracken Rocks, clearly at the top of the standings.
As far as Class B the most dangerous youths on the charge are Ulster’s Josh Hanlon, from Banbridge, and Lesmahagow Beta challenger Duncan MacColl. Hanlon posted a second at Bumpy and then top six placing right up to a barnstorming victory at Richmond. Up to the sixth round RCM Beta contender Billy Green was the rider with a target on his back and only Bradford’s Kieran Child halted his run at Bulletin, ironically right on Green’s home patch near Newton Abbott.
Child was on a roll in the Yorkshire Centre with some major results over adults but he had to miss Richmond because of a clash with family holidays. Interestingly Billy and Kieran have almost the same calculating riding style that brings results.
Blaydon’s Jack Biggins quietly scored scored three podiums in four trials. His Bumpy and Dob Park third places were in difficult wooded areas and maybe revealed his hidden strengths. His fifth placing at Richmond was mainly due to the persistence of Will Tolson. The Falcon teenager slumped at Womerton Farm, Lustleigh and Dob Park but excelled at Moretonhampstead with a tiebreaker second place to Child and ahead of Billy Green. That was Billy’s worst score in six trials.
One name edging in on the top six was Whitwick boy Daniel Slack who ran through his Class C years with top results. A slightly built boy, compared with his rivals, Daniel joined MRS Sherco and started badly at Bumpy with thirteenth place but ran three top six rides then hit the buffers at Dob Park and Cogden Hall. Significantly both venues featured dense woods and fallen trees yet the lad is brilliant on mud and shines in the worst weather. No tantrums from him at all. He just gets on with it and 2016 could be his year.
Newtownards Class C challenger Reece Gazzard won four out of six events but was pressured by Huddersfield Dirty Boyz Beta contender Charlie Mosley and Horsham’s Merlin Gas Gas rider Jack Dance. Both succeeded at the West of England and Cogden Hall but Gazzard was ever present and salvaged seventeen championship points on both occasions. Highland Leisure Beta contender Ben Dignan got onto the podium at Womerton, Bullaton and Parker’s Farm and ran a top six placing right up to Bracken Rocks finale.
Reviewing the first three trials there were already indications in Class B. Billy Green logged 55 followed by Jack Biggins and Keiran Child on 43. Slow burner Duncan MacColl was down in sixth place on 30 points. Then how things changed in the next three trials. Green found another personal gear and clocked up 57 points. Hanlon continued well but really fired up at Grinton with a victory ride. That stunning ride with just a five at the very last section shaded Green by sixteen marks. A five and three took MacColl to the third place on the rostrum. Significantly only Billy Green cleaned the last two sections.
Hanlon had closed Green down, but not enough. The mathematics will show though that Billy and Bracken Rocks was a formality.
The equations in Class C standard wheels echo last year with all the same names up front. For Billy Green read Reece Gazzard. The Newtownards Beta youngster won four out of six trials and then stuck in two runner-up rides amassing 114 points. Only Huddersfield youth Charlie Mosley and Jack Dance could halt the Gazzard landslide with Highland Leisure Beta rider Ben Dignan and Appleyard Beta teamster Edward Earle right on the case.
The arithmetics of the top six after three trials put Gazzard in the driving seat with sixty points and Mosley and Dignan matched on 45. Earle and Dance weighed in with 43 and 35 apiece. Then Gazzard banged in 54 points from the second trio of trials.
Mosley’s victory at the West of England followed by a second and third at Dob Park and Cogden Hall yielded 52 points so Gazzard headed for Bracken Rocks with a 17 point buffer over Mosley. Class C medium wheels are basically a two horse race with Buxton’s Harry Turner a length in front of Kirkcaldy East Neuk Trials Beta contender Jamie Galloway. Between them just two boys have won every trial this year. Galloway missed the rostrum at Cogden Hall when Henry Stephenson mastered fossil power after battery energy. Eight championship points separated Harry and Jamie when they arrived at Bracken Rocks. Stephenson and Harry Hemingway were too far behind on points to get involved. A class D medium wheel was a wrap after Cogden Hall where Buxton’s Ashton Brightmore recorded his fifth victory in five events.
Class D did not ride Shropshire as the Womerton Farm venue was not suitable for the two classes.
Previous fossil powered Class D champion Josh McParland challenged and scored 77 while Oset runner Dominic Horne missed two trials to take runner-up spot on four occasions. St Neots Alfie-Ray Turner mounted the rostrum once, at Bumpy.
Chirk nine years old Lewis Hurdsman headed out of North Wales five times and climbed the rostrum at every trial. His 89 point score locked out Mecatecno runner Morgan Shepherd and Oset rider George Hemingway though between them, they won the West of England at Parker’s Farm, Dob Park and Grinton. Significantly the Llangollen club member took 49 points from those three trials.
Even if Shepherd wins Bracken and Hurdsman does not score it matters not, Morgan will drop a 13 and end with 81 points. With over eighty entries for Bracken Rocks the grand finale appeared to be a spectacular event, and so it was. The sun shone, the sections dried out though the rocks, millions of them, were tricky. The huge step at the fifth was severe and even Billy Green failed to reach the summit but Keiran Child and Will Tolson really attacked and cleaned. Green’s two marks in the opening seven sections and his single on the final seven sealed the championship. Ben Dignan took Class C standard wheels from Jack Dance but Ulsters Reece Gazzard required a finish to lift the class title. He took the title from Charlie Mosley and Dignan.
Buxton’s Harry Turner climbed the rostrum at all seven trials winning the Shropshire, Moretenhampstead, Yeadon-Guiseley and Richmond. The stumbling block was Kirkcaldy’s Jamie Galloway who won Bumpy and South Shropshire. The Scottish East Neuk Trials Beta rider was on top form in 2014 in Class D consequently his arrival in Class C marked another turn in his fortunes.
The other Buxton threat surfaced at Bumpy where Ashton Brightmore commenced his clean sweep of the class. Six victories and South Shropshire counting as a drop score and as it did not take place was enough. Fossil champion Josh McParland and Dominic Horne picked up the pieces. North Wales came into the equation in Class D small wheels when Lewis Hurdsman won Bumpy. The schoolboy from Chirk was on the rostrum at every event !
If George Hemingway had ridden Bumpy the championship would have been wide open. He barnstormed the last three championship trials with Myles Hutchinson right on him to Bracken Rocks where Hurdsman signed off in the third place.
The year ended in sunshine at Bracken Rocks. All the trials were true tests with longish laps. There were questions about the Minder rules - whether, or whether not? A parents vote would endorse the minder situation for the A-CU at Rugby.
Photographs, courtesy of Barry Robinson - watch this space, plenty more to come...............
(PS. My personal apologies to Charlie Smith for making a mess of his name in the photo - Deryk Wylde)
Mark, one little pointer, every set of points on every machine I have owned, were virtually addicted to oil and grease and a trace amount - too small for you to see, even - can cause problems. So when you have carefully set the points, checked with your feeler gauge, etc., then your final touch should be to pull a clean piece of paper through the closed points - just to be sure.
Hopefully you will find like most, that you can become addicted to getting your mechanical knowledge to work for you.........
While I can understand the popularity of a desire to exclude 2 strokes based on their modern incarnations, pick up even the earliest editions of Max King's book and you'll see plenty of them, so why try and airbrush them out of 'TradTrials '? A simple rule that 2Ts are allowed, but only those with leading link forks (internal shocks/damping ONLY) or from specific manufacturers (Dunlop, like the early rigid James', Armstrong, Greeves etc) would allow a far wider range of bikes eligibility and be a better reflection of true period usage while not giving them an unfair advantage.
Norman
Hi Norman,
The basic ideas behind Traditional Trials are:
1. To ease the job of course plotters - by removing the need to plan for various ability levels by setting alternative routes.
2. To remove the need to spend a fortune modifying any old bike - by creating trials with sections that those old bikes were meant to be ridden in.
3. To encourage more of the old bikes out from the backs of sheds - RIDE 'EM, DON'T HIDE 'EM.
Finally, as an example of MY thoughts on twostrokes, I would welcome anybody with a Bantam that was so close to a standard road Bantam as this works Bantam ridden by Johnny Draper in the 1956 Scottish - and, yes, I'm sorry, but if you want to see several side-on photos, offside and nearside, or drive side and timing side, whatever is your preference - then the only place to find it is in ORRe.
I refer to the Photographic Imagery laws as relevant to this case, m'lud:
"When a photograph is presented of a vehicle in forward motion and said image depicts a view of the left side of the vehicle, that image is deemed to be a nearside view. Wrongful description of that view as being an offside view may attract corrective input from pedants on Trialscentral".
I plead guilty - but claim insanity to be considered before sentencing............oh, another mitigating consideration - I will not be able to use the correct full nearside view from in the clink...........
One of the first things to do is to get your head round the fact that the aim of the game, as it were, is to create a trial in which the sections are set as they would have been before 1965 - so how about asking somebody who knows?
First point, anybody who rode in a trial before 1965 has to be at least sixty-seven years old - so it is definitely the time to ask your club grandads first, where did they ride - or even where did they go to watch!!!!! Are there any groups of sections that nobody has used for years simply because they were no longer deemed difficult enough........
Look at as many old photographs of your club events and try to work out where they used to put the markers. When we decided to reinstate a Classic Experts trial in the Rhayader area, I trawled all the old photographs of 'Ashfield', then with Mr Price's permission went and put the markers on exactly the same trees as had been used in the late 1950's - it proved to be an excellent idea - especially among the riders, including Mick Andrews who said it took him back years and made the day even more memorable for him.
Were any of the Hoad sections in your area, or Meon Valley or Buriton?
Then remember - your aim is to give the riders a good ride, then they will come back and could even persuade their mates to come along next time..............
Traditional British Trials
in Classic Trials
Posted
Hi trialsrfun,
I would dearly love to take up your offer - but sadly my days of walking, let alone trying to set up sections, are long behind me.
However, there remain plenty of current riders who rode in my original series that regularly reminisce with me about the old sections - and maybe some of them could be persuaded.............
As far as Charlie is concerned he is a mere strippling, only just seventy, so he has years of catching up with me............
Incidentally, one of the reasons that I keep pushing people to have a look at ORRe is simply because I know I am one of the last generation of publishers who were actually active in trials and scrambles - as well as knowing personally many of the stars at the time - so I can report with every faith that I am using personal certainty and genuine experience to make it accurate fact.
But the day will come, hopefully not soon, but so many of my contemporaries are no longer with us that I am regularly aware that one day all the experience and knowledge that I have will die with me and be lost forever if I don't push on and get it on t'internet as a permanent record.
When I was awarded my Millennium Medal - along with my dear friend and colleague, Ralph Venables - for 'services to motorcycling journalism', I made a personal resolve to create a 'Reference Library of Offroad Motorcycle Sport'. So far it sits at 36 volumes, 180+ pages, 2000+ photographs, the majority full page - and counting. Better yet, it is non-commercial - so NO space WASTED on advertising.
And here is another offer - anybody seeking help or information on the historical facts of events, machines or people - use the email reference on this posting AND ASK...........
Enjoy
Deryk
PS. Many thanks for taking the trouble to spell my name correctly.