ianw

b40rt, it's disappointing that you feel the need to resort to name calling, but if that's the best you can do? How can anyone that is 'objective' possibly argue that these latest rules are proving to be good for the sport at the highest level? Remember, I didn't start this thread. This is two years with these new rules, and the scoring is very, very clearly a big problem to a huge number of people. At this point, surely an objective person would question whether the current rules are actually working towards the long term interests of trials. Apparently the primary objectives of the change were to make trials easier at the highest level, and to close the gap between the best riders, and the next best. HAS THAT HAPPENED???? Very clearly, the gap has actually widened. There is absolutely no point burying your head in the sand and saying, 'well it would be OK if the observers.....', because they are clearly not going to. Every single observer at a world round is carefully trained on the theory of the rules, yet almost every single observer uses common sense and marks a good display of skill as good display of skill. Why is that?

I just watched footage of the latest round. We should all be embarrassed that we are trials riders and this is taking place. Thierry Michaud is destroying this sport quickly with some idealogical nonsense that he can make trials like it was 40 years ago with a couple of rule changes. This rubbish appeals to no-one. It is simply not a display of rider skills, and the disparity between riders given 5's is absolutely appaling. It is nearly the end of the season, and if this absolute garbage occurs again next year, heads should roll.

I don't know why criticising Thierry's WTC rule changes will destroy the sport. This thread started after the WTC has been using these rules for almost two full seasons. The discontent is there at every single world round and the riders and observers continue to make their feelings well known, (but they are ignored over and over). The spectators are making their feelings known by staying away. The rule changes were forced upon everyone in the WTC with no consultation, and they are not producing the desired results. Thank goodness that the regulators in Australia can think for themselves and are not going to implement non-stop in this country.

I'm not sure why a petition would change Thierrys mind. He can see what everyone else sees, has been spoken to by hundreds of people, but does nothing to fix the mess he has created. Let the crowds continue to dwindle, let the young riders continue to leave the sport in droves, and let's keep trying to take the sport in a very narrow, philosophically driven direction because that's how it was when the tired old men now running this sport were kids.

The idiots running the WTC are driving the remaining nails into the coffin of global trials. Only very stupid people would force this rubbish to continue. The riders don't like it, the observers don't like, the spectators don't like it, and everyone leaves a WTC round frustrated. The change to non-stop for WTC rounds was a mistake, but continuing in the face of the evidence is just stupidity.

Don't listen to the talk about a 300 being too big. IMO, all other things being equal, a 300 is easier to ride than a 250 at any skill level because it is normally at a lower state of tune. Buy based on local support. I owned several Betas followed by several Shercos. Having owned both, I don't like Aluminium framed trials bikes any more. They look good and the idea is appealing, but the Betas were horrible to work on compared to the Shercos, (enough so to make me say never again). While I do agree that the build quality of the Betas is the best of any brand, the most trouble free bikes I owned were the Shercos.

I have tried to contact Youthstream over their irrelevant coverage of FIM motocross in the past, but have never had a reply. They are obviously trying to be 'clever' and market their product to a wider audience, but their coverage 'trivialises' the sport. It's as if they just don't get it at all. Rubbish commentary, rubbish interviews, and poor competition footage. Their coverage of both MX and Trials is terrible.

The tragedy is that the FIM doesn't believe that trials should be spectacular. Thierry doesn't like the way that trials was getting 'bigger and bigger'. He want's it to go back to being old men riding in streams, just like the good old days. The only people who can afford to ride trials professionally in countries like Australia and the US are doing it by providing entertainment with riding displays at car shows etc. The only guys that make any money from Trials in Australia are 4 or 5 freestyle trials riders. The self indulgent non-stop rubbish the FIM is forcing upon the sport will effectively make the WTC irrelevant, because it is clearly not what people want to see, and clearly not what young riders want to emulate.

The FIM listens to no-one. They know whats's best. Boofoons!!!

Lucky the riders were able to sort it out. Strange that the riders could see the looming problems, but the FIM couldn't. Makes you think they may be out of touch?

Sounds like the riders had to band together to force day one to be abandoned. Makes you wonder about the people running this sport at the highest level? How on earth does a world round get set like this when the video shows that the problems were obvious to the riders before the event. Was the decision to abandon made by the riders of FIM?

I meant that they are working hard with videos, observer training, meetings with riders/obesrvers before the event to get the observing consistent, BUT THEY ARE FAILING. The current situation is not fixable without a rule change, and no amount of talking to observers will fix it.

Well done jj65. I have been an avid stop allowed exponent, but I can see 1 to 5 working, so I voted that way. It would encourage a rider to keep going but still take chances not to foot, and could well be the best of both worlds. I do think, however, that a stop should only become a stop after a prescribed time, maybe 1, 2 or 3 seconds? Additionally, the stop allowed time limits will still need to be in place to stop riders taking a deliberate '1' and sitting there for 20 seconds preparing for a big step.

atomant, there is no longer any point saying that the observing needs to be 'better'. The observing can't possibly get better under the current rules. Saying that Toni Bou was waiting 20 seconds before a huge rock step is part of the problem we have. It's simply not accurate, and he can almost ride indoor non-stop. The WTC and Thierry Michaud are putting an enormous effort into observing at the highest level, but the rubbish is still happening. Five is clearly too harsh for a feet up stop, and only possibly makes sense if you are only driven by a philosophical bent, rather than a practical one. There is no other sport on the planet where random people are trying to force competitors to compete with a certain 'style', and what is happening in trials is ludicrous. There is no way that the riding on display in the video's of the first Britsh Chamionship this year is good to watch. The riders look like unskilled idiots, (which they are not). I know observers, riders, and spectators from the Australian World round this year, and the event was damaging for all concerned because of inconsistent observation. That is in spite of everyone's best efforts and under the strict control of the worlds best 'experts'. If this was a business, and a CEO kept doing something so flawed, he would be sacked. I keep wondering why old folk who can't ride very are so determined to force non-stop on the good riders of the world. No one was forcing old timers to 'stop' while riding in their lower grades, and I don't get why old timers are so intent on forcing good riders to ride 'their way' because it is pure and noble and oh so British. I regard the change to the current non-stop rules as the most selfish and narrow minded decisions that I have ever seen in any sport.

It's about the huge difference between a clean and a 5 under the current rules. A dab or too will 'all come out in the wash', but not an arbitrary 5 v's 0 subject to the 'interpretation' of the observer. Missing a dab is one thing, but when they allow a rider to stop but give them a clean, it is simply not a 'mistake', but a deliberate decision to ignore the rule because it doesn't make sense. Simplistically, it is easier to ride non-stop at an intermediate level, but harder at an advanced level. At beginner level, all trials can be ridden non-stop regardless of the rules as it is really only 'trail riding'. Advanced riders learn advanced skills by stopping, and many of the skills that have been developed require a 'dynamic stop' to execute. Once they learn those skills stopping, advanced riders can then learn how to use them non-stop. The skills are here to stay. The worlds best riders still win at non-stop using skills developed by stopping, and Toni Bou is probably even more dominating than he was becausue he can use all the tricks but still keep moving. All the WTC guys still practice stopping. Go and watch them in the pits or warming up. We can't take that knowledge back now, they know the secrets, and the tricks will remain part of trials whatever we do. The question we must ask, however, is whether we are making it harder for riders to progress into the expert ranks, or easier as Thierry had hoped. I believe we are making it harder, less enjoyable for the riders and there is no question that WTC trials is not nearly as appealing to the majority of spectators as it was. looks like lose-lose situation to me.