dan williams

Thinking further on this I’ve had another epiphany. There are neutrals between all gears. Aside from jokes about old Bultacos, yeah I owned a bunch, there has to be neutrals between all gears because you can’t risk engaging two at the same time. I had a Hyundai Excel do that once. It wasn’t pretty, sliding through an intersection with the front wheels locked and me smashed into the steering wheel. Looking on-line Beta has a service manual for the EVO engine and it shows the cam mechanism for the shifter. I’ve been thinking of ways to modify the cam profile to make it less likely to pop out of gear into neutral in a section when it occurred to me that I can change the index of the cam simply by drilling another hole. This should allow me to put neutral between any two gears. Say between fourth and fifth. I can hear the cries of “Heresy! Insanity!” But is it? I spend more time looking for neutral than actually in neutral at this point. You can’t tell me there isn’t a certain feeling of victory when you find neutral on the first attempt on a Beta. It happens so rarely. Aside from making it slightly easier to kick over and moving the bike around, both of which are fairly moot with a properly functioning clutch, neutral simply doesn’t seem that important. Certainly not so important it needs to be between the two gears I use, and depend on, the most. Of course I’m going to do due diligence in figuring out what the size of the cam angle for the other neutrals is and whether I’m likely to blow the gearbox to smithereens but I suspect there’s nothing special about the 1st to 2nd dead zone in the gearbox. Only that it is a convenient place to put that neutral notch in the cam.

Well that was helpful. Thanks, I’ll never change anything to my liking again. ?

Besides in a few years they’ll all be electric and gearboxes will go the way of the rotary phone. ”Tell me again grampa, the story of how you had to shift cars and motorcycles with your hands!” “Why didn’t you let the robot do it?”

Ah no, I’m keen to dig into this now. I have some ideas I need to try.

The primary ratio on the 2018 is higher than my 2013. Stock countershaft on the 2013 was an 11 so I went to a 10. Stock countershaft on the 2018 is a 10. I’m not keen on going to a 9 so I went up two teeth on the rear to a 44. Quite happy with the gearing now. It’s not popping out constantly but three times in one loop is not something I’m willing to ignore since it happens under power where a spontaneous neutral usually doesn’t end well.

Why do we have neutral between 1st and 2nd on a trials bike anyway? Seems an unnecessary convention. Neutral at the bottom of the shift range seems more logical. You could always find neutral. You wouldn’t need the short lobes on the shift cam for going between 1st and second. The heart of my problem I suspect. Nobody shifts on the fly in a section, it’s always stop first and take five or six stabs at the lever anyway to know what gear you are in. Click down to neutral then up for the gear you want. None of this down, down, up, down, up, up, up stuff even Toni Bou does.

It’s popped out very smoothly thank you very much.

Some days I don’t know who I am?

The new bike has suddenly learned a new trick popping out of first and second gear into neutral. Not real happy about this. Guess I’ll be looking into the shifter mechanism now.

The 2 stroke is a lot easier to maintain. Congratulations on the new bike! Now go ride the wheels off that thing.?

Well you do have to tune them.

Correction Adige and I found this. http://www.adige.eu/

Advige is what was stamped on them years ago.

You mean one Sachs and one Tech? ?

I like picking on Beta as much as the next guy but consider from 2008 to 2013 there were three completely different frame designs. They do change and refine but when viewed in the same timeframe as completely new bikes like the Ossa a few years ago and the Vertigo now they seem very static. The TRS has much in common with the Jotagas and the GasGas design is more evolution than revolution with the exception of the clutch few years ago. Sometimes big change can be big trouble as Sherco learned with the fuel pump/seat tank combo and Beta’s first beam frame in ‘09. For that reason most people are more comfortable buying a 2nd year of production of a new design than a 1st production. More importantly is a manufacturer and importer/dealer who stands behind their product. Beta replacing all the frames in ‘09 said more to me than any other factor in choosing to stay with Beta. ...and of course bold new graphics?

Many years ago I went to the TdN in Bertrix and got to hang around with the American TdN team. Stunningly beautiful country, friendly people and chocolate to die for. There’s a special place in my heart for Belgium.

Always speculation Beta will go with fuel injection at some point in the near future. The moving around and upgrading of the electrics (110W) points to some major change. But aside from some incremental improvements, my 2018 is very close to my 2013. The 2013 was a massive leap from my ‘08. I guess we won’t know until Beta shows us. I figure if I ever buy another trials bike it’ll be electric anyway. If you fancy a new bike go get one. If “new” technology is important to you buy a Vertigo. If you fancy something else a TRS. Or Beta, Sherco, Scorpa, GasGas. Waiting for the next great thing is just wasted time you could have been out riding.

Dressing the fiber tabs is still worth the effort even on the new bikes.

Hi Eric, Welcome to the clutch thread. The 4T is a slightly different beast as it has all six of the thicker (3mm) fiber plates. I looked at your parts manual and it looks like they use all standard steel plates even for the factory and the basket is aluminum. Some of the earlier "factory" clutches on different models had steel baskets and three oddball steels. Beta is still screwing around with the configurations so it's always a mystery what's going to be in a clutch pack year to year model to model. The glue cleanup is not a big necessity on the newer bikes but the tab polish is still a good way to smooth out the engagement. You should have the stepped spacers on your clutch so you might be able to turn them around for a lighter pull as with the steps facing in they reduce preload on the clutch springs by 1.5mm. I can tell you where to get a set of the 3mm spacers I had made if you PM me. On the bars make sure your lever perches are moved in towards the middle for more leverage. This also cuts down on snapped levers. Also make sure the pivot for the lever is lubed and tightened properly. It may not seem like a big deal but over the course of a long trials it makes a difference.

Well then for lobstah as we call it in New England you need to hop a plane and come to my club here in Maine. Ayuh!

Excellent attitude and you never stop learning. As a rule trials people are patient teachers and will really be on your side to help you ride better. So welcome to the sport! One of us! One of us!

That sounds more a like bent stanchion.

The internals of the 2018s are different. Supposedly volume is now are the same for both legs. I changed the oil in mine and drained out roughly 300cc from each leg. manual says 297g. Replaced the 6.1wt with 2.5wt since the forks seemed far too sluggish in compression. Much cushier now. Don't try to drain forks with bottom screw. Remove them from the clamps and invert them. Yeah it's a pain. The screw on the bottom of the cartridge side doesn't come out properly on the new forks. It just gets loose but doesn't come out and then can't be tightened up again. I fought with mine for about two hours. Many bad words were said. I made a cartridge holder out of PVC pipe and it still wouldn't tighten. Finally resorted to tapping the top of the PVC while seated in the cartridge while turning the screw when it finally caught. The new forks look like the old Paiolis but they are made by Sachs. And after five rides on the new bike the oil that came out was full of aluminum in suspension. Much more than I would have expected. As if the sliders were not properly cleaned after being machined.

Cool, one more data point of clutch tuning. I think you're the first to go thinner plates on the 4T. On my 2Ts I do the clutch fix and run six of the thinner plates with 3mm step washers. That's my recipe and I'm sticking with it.

Since the 4t uses all 3mm “thick” plates you can use the kevlar plates from Barnett. 301-35-10012 Hey Billy, I have a set collecting dust. Wanna try them out?