john collins

Not quite Brit Champ Adult - Usually practice & section fettling etc on Sat. many Clubs who run Adult Brit Champ use Saturday for quite a lot of final work - I know we do. Section tapeing, starts/end cards - last minute route marking , building stage, getting catering in place, toilets arrive and so on. Certainly in my Club we would not be keen on taking Friday off work to do this - and we just do not have enough manpower to do both. We would also struggle to get Observers for two days instead of one. I know other clubs who run Brit Solo Champ are same - and certainly, in past some venues were only available for one day. To combine Adult and Schoolboy on day - brings on additional problems - although we have considered this. E.G to maintain presemt format - there would just not be enough daylight left at end etc - at least not in some of the months. More importantly - We have several clubs - about 7 - 8 who are good and experinced at running Brit Adult Solo - it does not necessarily follow that they can provide good Schoolboy A & B sections - of course some can - but others have not this experience. We have several Clubs - more than above actually - who are good and experinced at running Youth A & B Champ - it does not necessarily follow that they can provide Brit Solo Adult - of course some can - but others - very few actually - have the experince of running Adult Brit Champ under current format. Why - just to ease dates would one want to risk chance of messing up both? Further to this - quite a few Clubs apply to run Schoolboy A & B - and they are good - but to keep number of rounds down to sensible level - travel/ costs/time etc it is not be that desirable to greatly increase number of rounds - so each year - some are dissapointed - we accept this. If say my club - St David's who have worked very hard for many a year now to run Brit Solo Round - were additionally given a Youth A & B round - surely that means that one of the clubs who have worked hard for many years to run a Youth round would miss out? My club deserves a Brit Solo Champ round - they do not deserve a Youth A & B. In same way Youth A& B Champ orgainsers deserve a round - they probably do not deserve an Adult round If we look at the maths - say 7 Adult and 8 Youth A & B = 15 - if we went for a combined Champ adult & youth - of say 8 rounds - surely 7 clubs - through no fault of their own would miss out - bit of a kick in the teeth I feel? Also - often A & B rounds on Sunday - can be combined with a C&D on Sat - this helps parents with two youths riding - perhaps one in A and one in C - this would go out of window ? And again - I would not be too happy with some of Adult clubs catering for C & D with no experince in this area. So - nothing is simple. As I have said - we have allocated a whole day to a Youth Forum - this is place where such ideas will be discussed - but I have to tell you - although there is a week or two to go - as of yesterday there are only two clubs I think who have confirmed they will be attending.

Clubs and Centres will probably have received provision trials calendar for 2008 in last week. Please note we have made a balls up of the Youth A & B dates ! Apologies. We will do all these again - so please disregard published dates. Not and excuse - for we clearly messed up - but as way of some sort of explanation of problems we are having - and some answers for some queries that have arrived about allocation of A & B dates in general. A few years ago now at a well attended Trials forum in Rugby - there was a considerable discussion on Youth A & B Championships. We are asked for a better spread of dates ie not one weekend after anothe ( hence I say we have made total balls up for 08) After much discussion we were asked to try to keep away from FIM, UEM and Brit Solo Adult Champ dates. While this obviously only affects some of the riders - these tend to be the top Youth riders - and it does make sense to try to allow them to contest their own Championship ie Youth - and also gain experince - the top 5 - in the Adult Champ. It is regarded that this is a stepping stone to UEM and FIM - and we agreed . This means that we block out where possible FIM/UEM/Brit Champ dates - and then look for Youth A &B. This limits dates somewhat - and a few Clubs are finding that they are losing out - beacuse they can only run at certain times of year because land issue etc - and if this time of year is congested beacuse of the events I have mentioned - their chances of getting a round are reduced. We fully accept this - and as you know we have dedicated a whole Forum to Youth matters this year - and this is clearly one item that needs discussion In our quest to miss the UEM/FIM and Brit Champ - we took out eye off the ball - and did not pay enough attention to the spread of dates - if you study the actual dates available - this is not that hard to do. Anyway - as I have said we are going to re-do the Youth A & B and try to come up with something better

Oh - Bloody hell. If ever there was a case for saying things were confusing - Ive just gone and inadvertently made it! What I should have typed : A) TSR 22 A - Stop Permitted TSR 22 B - No - Stop - eg Sammy Miller, Classic , Scottish and others c) FIM - as Per Brit Champ. I think we can assume that everyone who has already posted - meant No-Stop - 22B - as they thankfully also said this as well as my wromg numbers. I make it so far a concensus for TSR 22B - No Stop Sorry

Every now and again we return to this topic - and probably always will. I do not intend to make long drawn out comments ( that's a change!) However - please can we look sensibly and constructively at the common request for just " One set of rules" As an experiment - and without explanation / debate/ opinions - for surely we have done all that - let us start form the premise that " One set of rules would be best" These then would be A) TSR22 A - No Stop TSR 22 B - Stop Permitted C) FIM - As per Brit Adult Champ. If you wish to take part in ths experiment - just post one of the above sentances - no more - and let us just see what one set of rules actually comes up with- then we can take it from there - so just humour me and post one of the above only

It is starting to get complicated now. A few things I am not sure about. Firstly - please not let us go off on tangents about why this or that should be a round - we can only work with those who have applied - and at this late stage that is more or less done and dusted - caalendar 99% set - October remember. a) For simplicity - let us still call it the Classic Championship ( this will change) It is then a CHAMPIONSHIOP. Originally - as we have discussed many times - aimed at Pre-65 and Twin Shock - but then O/40 introduced - helped make events viable. Then O /50 introduced - which seemed logical. Both O/40 and O/50 on modern bikes. Accepted that there was a tendancy in a few events to aim sections a little too much at O/50 & O 40 - this is not how it should be - Organisers written too - and a watchful eye must be kept on this in 08. Accepted - that series needs to be Traditional type sections, No - Stop rules, Should not be having the tight turns/steep drops more associated with modern type events - i.e traditional sections we would have ridden in 60'70's. Now - In Championship classes - there will surely be riders who expect a challenge - and also who aim at whole series. There will also be good riders - who perhaps only do a few rounds - probably those nearest their home - no real problem here - the way to encourage them to do more - must surely be to make the events as enjoyable as possible - and they may want to do whole series. I think all above is probably accepted by most. Now - as I think posts have shown - there will be riders - who perhaps are not as competative as they once were, who are not too bothered about Championships, age, aching bones, etc etc . These riders wish to ride - possibly - like myself - travelling with a few mates who are still competative and wish to contest Championship points - but they would prefer an easier option - especially in perhaps the most testing sections. This is the option I take in the Rhayder Classic - I think I could probably still get round the Expert course - but due to age and lack of riding through ACU commitments - I am not sure I would enjoy the day so much - so I ride the Non Expert route - I cannot be that much of a disaster as won that route in 05 - but frankly that was not particularly important as all I really wanted was a great day out - which I had. I had another great day out last year further down the field Now the point I wish to make - is if one does not - for any reason - wish to contest a Championship - it must be good to offer some alternative routes - I like the 50% idea - because the rest of route does not become crazy for the rest - as not all contesting Championship will be top riders - but still wish to try. On 50% idea - also those who opt for the easier sections - still get to ride half the trial on same sections as Champ riders - and can see how they do, compare with mates on other route ( especially if they beat them on a few of these) - so I think this is worth a try. NOW - the bit I am strugling with - but will certainly put your views to T & E on Wednesday - is why does this easier option have to be a CHAMPIONSHIP? For me - if I wish to contest a Championship - I would ride this route. If I do not think I am up to it ( which is the case) I will take the easier option - ride for enjoyment - and of coyurse try to beat all the others on this route - but I cannot understand why I would need it to be a Championship? I just feel we are trying to have our cake and eat it ? At the end of it all we cannot make Championships for every class at every opportunity - frankly it will devalue existing Championships . We are open to suggestions of course - and obviosly I may have got it wrong - and certainly we cannot possibly please everyone. What we need now are any more ideas - and on Wed the T &E will look at it al

Fair points . We will look at it again. I think the suggestion then is : Championship class for O/50 - same as O 40 ? Those who wish to Non Championship class - ride Non Championship sections - regardless of Class - no points in any case. Class A - Ride Non Champ sections - but for Champ points. In all respects when I say Non Championship sections - we mean organiser can mark up to 50% dual route with easier option for Non Champ riders. This should mean that 50% sections can be reasonably competative - but as remaining 50% will be ridden by all - this should stop Championship class sections becoming too severe or stupid as the whole entry needs to be able to cope with them At least that is what I think I mean.

Yes we have been looking at the Classic series following the various previous posts

Sounds like same bike Baldilocks. Not sure who I originally bought it off - as I have bought and sold hundreds if not thousands of them in 35 years as Bult specialist. I know I sold it quite a few times ( as you do when money is tight) but always managed to buy it back - strangely usually for more money than I sold it for ! Some years ago I said enough is enough ( will sell TV or something instead if needs be) - and have kept it ever since - and always will. Sometimes I use it quite regulary and other times it can sit for about 6 months or longer. It is probably due for a spray job on tank etc about now - but intend to get a few more rides in this year Will organise photo's asap

Yes - Sounds feasable - buy some helmets have them painted etc and rider picks them up. Life is never that simple - riders of the top calibre often have contracts with helmet suppliers etc - sometimes at end of year ( for both ISDE and TDN) the helmet they have is often the proto type for next year etc. As I have said for many years we have been down various roads with ISDE - and it has never been easy. Also remeber that often when TDN is outside UK sometimes riders have already been out of UK for many weeks and arrive at TDN on way home - and would be sticking helmet on head for first time etc - no previous try on. For you or me - perhaps not a problem - but top riders want things as they want them. At the end of the day - they ride the bikes - they must be happy with what is on their head. All the riders had them sprayed - it was not a hand paint job - but as I have previously mentioned the colour is the colour . All this is not rocket science and the riders are consulted - and at present they prefer to handle it themselves - but as stated for 2008 we will look at it for some fair points have been made. I will also speak to Dusty Martin ( ISDE Team manager) - possible we can develop a green corporate design for all British Teams - I did explore this some years ago- but the Enduro boys had a sort of different perspective on what they wanted on helmets. It will be looked into.

You are not the first to query this Adsy - many others have - and not least the riders who have not always been impressed with Green. Reason is that colours for hemets for National teams in FIM events are laid down in the Technical rules Art 01.73 - and the colour for GB is Green. Many countries - Spain for example - have Yellow and Red. Poland - White with Red band. But for GB - Green. As someone has stated it is British Racing Green that we are aiming for - and after a few warnings from FIM in past years becuase we tended to have various shades of green - I punched British Racing green into Google a few weeks ago to try to get definitive colour. I also phoned a couple of paint suppliers hoping to get a code of some sort. If you have some time to kill - try the Google experiment - it is quite interesting with quite a lot of debate about what is or is not British Racuing green. This is mainly form specialist car clubs - who of course want their MG's to be correct etc. One site shows pictures of a whole load of fantastic MG cars - but there is Hunter Greens and Forest greens etc and so it goes on. Quite a few sites actually include paint swatches to try to explain it all. When my head started hurting I just sent out a letter to the rider asking them to go for British Racing Green as used on the Rover cars such as the 620 I think it was. The helmets were the closest we had ever had them - and in fact the FIM Technical Official commented on it at the Jury meeting and thanked us for making the effort ( after bollocking me strongly - but quite correctly the previous year) I think we do need to look at a specific paint job - and see if we can somehow brighten the job up - perhaps building in the Union Jack design - but that does mean collecting in helmets a few weks before event etc and getting them all there together etc ( would not have been so difficult for IOM ) We do it for ISDE - and we will look at it for TDN - as like the rest of you I agree it does tend to look like we have a job lot of emulsion somewhere - but I am afraid we will still be stuck with Green

Sure 2/4 - Tied up with TDN till after weekend. After this wil get my son to take some shots and try to post them on this site or send them to you via email

Terrible news - a great guy

Just to inform you Shaun Morris has had an accident and cannot compete in TDN - we wish him speedy recovery and I know he will be gutted as he was really up for the event. Michael Brown has been drafted in - and we all know he will give it his best shot and the chance to be in the Team with Dougie , Graham and James I am sure will be an experince he can only benefit from John Collins British TDN Team Manager

I have and ride( baddly) the original Steve Wilson Bultaco - square section s/arm, chrome frame etc. Petrol in frame and fuel under seat etc. There is quite a lot of history with the bike - I have ridden it in quite a few trials lately and qyuite a few will have seen it at the SM rounds with me. It is excellent in some sections - not so clever in others ( could be rider?) I did a lot of work motorwise - but the rest is as Steve built it. I lent it to him a few years ago and he rode it in a Classic or Miller round - it came back in much better condition than it went so he is always welcome to borrow it ( he gave me a bollocking for not changing s/arm bushes) It is a credit to the man the way he built it - and I believe JCM may have looked at it for ideas. If somene asks I will tryu to post a photo - or get someone who knows how to fdo that to do so.

Unfortunately the Neath Motor Fred Rist Trial scheduled for this weekend has just been cancelled. The route runs through several farms and some of the farmers were understandably concerned. It is a bitter blow - the sections and 30 mile route all marked after weks of work - and even the weather is glorious. Our sport relies entirely on the goodwuill of these farmers - and we respect their wishes and keep our fingers crossed that this latest outbreak can be contained Apologies to anyone who is inconvenienced - we will be in touch John Collins Neath Motor Club

Just been looking at it this morning Basically: Thursday - PM - Women allowed to visit sections. & Womens Admin & Technical. Fri - Start Womens WC - - I have 10.30 written Fri Finish Womens WC - 4pm. Fri Evening - Presentation for that days Womens WC & Prixe presentation for 07 Womens WC & Opening Ceromony for all TDN Teams. Sat - Start Womens TDN - I have 10.30 written on sheet Finish Womens TDN - 4pm Sat Morning Mens TDN Tech & Admin & Practice ( Not on sections!) Sat Afternoon Mens TDN Teams visit sections. Sat Afternoon approx 4.15pm Prize Giving Womens TDN Sunday 8am Start of Mens TDN Sunday 6pm Finish TDN Sunday 6.15pm Prize Presentation. Sunday night TDN Function Please note these are the times I have - but of course can always change a little so please check closer to event Hope this helps

Guys - can I ask ( beg) you to stop this discussion asap. Scorpa - tomorrow I will be in contact with Club and explain more - for now please just refer to Rule 4 Trail Bike Champ John Collins

Sounds extremeley simple Nigel - and one would expect it to work. And we did However - I can 100% assure you that within a very short period of time when no results/championship positions arrived - the phone was picked up . and picked up and picked up. Several people have been phoned, several people have been written to - copies were also sent to Centre etc. At time of my first email ( yesterday or day before? ) there was still no sucess and no encourasging replies However - I am assured that after more requests/letter/phone calls in last few days - results have arrived - and all should now be able to be completed.

Re - Request for Classic Championship. The problem seems to be that at the ACU we have not received results and Championship points allocated for the round which was held on June 17th! Several requests have apparently been made - but I am told today there has been no response. The Torridge round was not posted as although the results wee all sent in OK - the office was trying to keep things in sequence - but I have asked that they be put in place asap. I will continue to investigate what the hell is happening about an event held on June 17th -

Not really all that able to help at this juncture on this

This is going to drive me nuts. Please remember I am not computer technology expert status. I have been told some computeer gobblydook went wrong and that is why link did not work. The computer wizards ( or not) have now diverted it - and so messages should at least be in someones inbox. Next - I am assured that if you click on Classic - you should now get that - and I did. Next problem - I want to know why it is not up to date - and T&E Sec who deals with it is on holiday! but I will try to investigate as best I can. Please tell me how to make the click on Trials Central to obtain the Classic results ???? ( which we must have sent in) and I will try to look for mistake - better still tell me what the mistake is. As we have sent these in to Trials Central - I can then check and find out why some prat has sent a different set to SportMoto etc.

You are absoltely right - I have just tried it - and it does not work. So as much use as an ashtray on a motorbike. I am not happy and will investigate asap John Collins

bo drinker you have made my day - especially as everyone including my grown up sons tell me its worth about

I run a VW Caddy

Some interesting points made