pmk

Footpeg support structure has been fabricated, and tack welded into place. So, I do appreciate the advice given and will post some updates in a bit. Next will be to verify alignments and double check the pegs have been moved downward only, with very little or ideally, no change to the front or back. Also, in regards to handlebar position, on my own MAR, I purchased production bar risers. Have not ridden it yet, but the reposition has moved the bars up 15mm and forward 12mm in relation to the triple clamp flat surface. Accounting for the triple clamp being tilted on account of the headtube angle, the actual amount forward is less, probably 9 or 10mm.

I admit to not knowingly ever seen Magical brand rear shocks. Is it possible, or does anyone know, if the Magicals are manufactured by Betor to Magicals design criteria, or are they manufactured somewhere else? I ask, since this pressed in mount design sounds similar and common to the Betor shocks. Honestly, no idea where they are made, just asking a simple question.

Commonly, most times, a spherical bearing, being similar to say a ball bearing is sized by ID, OD, Width, and degree of misalignment. In most cases, the ball is permanently installed by the manufacturer swaging the outer race. On some styles, the outer race is machined with to notches that can allow the ball to be removed if rotated 90 degrees allowing the flats to pass by the notches. Some version are manufactured as a steel ball riding against a steel outer race. Other version may have a Teflon fabric liner and are considered self lubricating or there are versions utilizing brass races pressed into the steel outer race. Some version are designed to be lubricated by grease and have a groove machined on center around the outer race circufrence. This style also has a small hole drilled through the outer race within the groove to allow grease to reach the inner ball surface. The groove acts as a passageway from the housing the bearing is seated into, allowing a grease nipple on the housing to recieve grease that flows inward to the ball. I would post a photo of an Ohlins eyelet with a spherical bearing installed, however my upload limit is close to zero.

Woody, are the Magicals pivots a press in type or spacers with a bearing retained by a circlip. Just curious.

Reference photo that may help others. Buddy texted this to me after he finally got the pivot pressed apart. Two silver cups. The spacer has the spherical ball machined as part of it. Small O rings are the only seals. No circlips to retain a spherical bearing assembly, simply each cup is press fit into the shock eyelet. At a guess, those peen type marks are likely from the socket as the upper cup in the photo was pressed out.

Life is short, enjoy what you can while you are can. Trials Central and other forums or FB groups are kind of an entertainment overall and like TV there are many characters. Each person comes here for their own reasons. Myself, I enjoy learning from others, and helping if possible when I can, and like grandkids or kids, sharing photos of my challenges of tasks, completion of tasks, and if worthy pictures of the bikes others may also enjoy. Sometimes the characters are great to learn from or see what’s going on, other times less so. When people act in a manner that deviates from what you enjoy, like TV, we can choose to not watch. Your recent comment, indicating I had no idea about removing the eyelet bushings I shrugged off with a “whatever”, simply because you were not wrong in that I was not able to remove them. I was asking to learn, there were no replies stating how, but once it was learned, I shared. The shock eyelets are tangible and beyond obvious once apart. Other times, topics are less tangible. Recently on another website, there was discussion about other things, trials related. Each of us has an opinion. Some have knowledge and experience in various sunjects. Never to old or unwilling to learn, open minded I ask the why question. Until the why is answered, the opinion is merely that. Granted the why must be answered with a means to support the reason. Sadly, often the why answer is a perpetuated tribal knowledge, simply based on hearsay. Being miles apart in distance, often not knowing the other person, most times there is no reason to become upset about posts. If you have the time to share knowledge and can support the knowledge that is awesome. If you prefer to read and ask questions, awesome too. Those that entertain themselves via negativity, that too is awesome since we as the viewer can change the channel and ignore them... No worries from me about your previous comments here, from your side I can see I may have deserved it.

Yes people with experience and skill can work it out themselves. I handed them back and said wait on the reply from InMotion. The idea of destroying the shock eye on someone elses new shock was not cool. Last thing I needed was a broken shock and InMotion saying they accidentally sent the wrong shocks. I stand behind my decision to wait an extra day or two until InMotion replied. If I need to go inside these to get them dialed in, I will post some photos so others have an idea of how the are assembled. Advertising says they use a bladder. Possible but no common on non rezzy shocks with long shaft travel.

Thanks for the kind words. Myself and my buddy that bought the shocks are both curious how well they perform. Time will tell. If needed I will revalve them if shimmed or make appropriate mods internally to get them dialed in. Again time will tell. Expect them to be pretty basic and no big deal other than waiting on seals when needed. Myself, I wish he had just gone with sime USA made shocks. He was tempted by Magicals but cost was more than he cared to spend. At a guess, had he truly known OZO shocks are Betors, he may have avoided purchasing them. His other Betors are crap to ride and do not use a quick release spring retainer.

Time out guys. First off, Woody is correct, the MAR uses two size shock mounts. As for InMotions reply, it certainly was short and sweet, essentially saying they just push out. Fair enough, they were correct. They did just push out, but required the force of the vise acting as a press to make it happen. Yesterday while with the owner of the shocks, he went further than telling me he got them out. His words were they both were very tightly pressed in, and released with a “pop”. So, if others are buying these OZO shocks for an MAR, realize what may be required. As for lubricating this setup, unless you use just oil, or build a greasing adapter, you must run the pivots dry, or press them apart to grease them. Regarding the use of rubber hose as shock eyelet mounts on some applications. The early 70s Curnutt shocks on my MAR, I have the original instructions for them. They explain, go to tne hardware store and purchase vinyl tubing in size needed to make the shock mount setup.

Say what you might, but that post of yours is inaccurate and you are missing the context. My buddy that owns the shocks first attempted to push out the what appeared to be a spacer bushing. Fearing he would damage them, he asked me to give it a try. Not knowing how Betor designed these eyelets, and nothing moved with reasonable effort, I too feared there was possibly a clip, or something else required to get these apart. The idea of destroying a new shock eyelet was not cool and waiting to have good info was not an issue. InMotion finally replied, and with that, my buddy, that owns the shocks stacked sockets and wise what he described as good effort, the vise pressed them out. The design is silly and kind of dumb. Hardly a true spherical bearing. The design requires a tight press fit to retain the ball races. But whatever. Your description in your reply explains a typical spherical bearing setup, exactly as I too expected it to be. Every pherical bearing I have worked with, whether shock eyelets, aircraft or automotive typically has spacers that can be removed from the ball, and the entire spherical bearing is inserted then retained. With the spacer and ball as one item as on these shocks, the design is not common. As for using rubber hose for shock eye mounts, with Betor not offering the correct size on this model shock, and being the upper mount with minimal movement, it is a non issue. if you require more info to understand, I shall post a photo when time permits.

To update for others. I attempted to remove the upper eyelt pivots. The owner of the shocks got a reply from InMotion saying they just push out. With reasonable effort, I was unable to get them to budge. I handed the shocks back to my buddy that owns them. Using a socket to support the backside, he pressed them out in the vise. The design does not use circlips. Simply two pressed in cups with a center bushing that is ball shaped at the midpoint. His installation will require using a rubber or similar hose over the frames mounting lug, wirh the shock eye slipped over the hose.

This week, my riding buddies new rear shocks arrived. These were OZO Pro Trials Rear Shocks from InMotion. The version he got were the silver colored ones with Shrader valves on the end cap. My question, and he has not heard back from InMotion yet, does anyone know how to alter the size of the mounting setup in regards to diameter. I have not personally tried to work on them, but he mentioned the oem spacer will pivot and rotate, but does not seem to want to be pushed out. Obviously asking before causing damage. The shock eye mount diameter is too small.

Gordo, were you able to get the info you needed about the Rickman? If not, there is a dedicated crew on ADVRider that post in the Forum Section “Olds Cool” in the topic “All things Rickman”. A couple of the guys have the Rickman books, and in them, there are pages listing frame numbers and build quantities. Jaglite, one of the guys there helped me identify my Rickman Yamaha. All the best with it.

4130 Chromoly sheet is ordered. Footpeg kit is here. So the process begins maybe mid next week to make some cuts. So much info shared here has been awesome and very helpful. Now it becomes a matter of putting ideas to results. I ordered bar risers for my own MAR. I will share more on that when they arrive. Essentially, nothing crazy planned, merely bring the modern Renthals to about the same height and position as what the MAR was when new. My bike will have stock location footpegs with the KX pegs vs the tiny MAR things. Thanks everyone, great discussion.

Been window shopping for bar risers for my own MAR. If I can locate longer 7mm bolts, I have risers off a vintage KTM that are 1”. Time will tell what I ultimately decide upon.

Woody, any chance I can ask for a couple more photos of those peg mounts. AND...how much bar riser do you install? Your words of down only is what was decided yesterday, seeing your photo indicates it is about at axle height based on a quick check today on his sister MAR. being about the same height and experienced with the MAR for a while is a huge help. As for all the numbers and math, sorry.

Appears they moved footpegs back and down, but also moved the bars back also? When I asked about Micks height before, the numbers were all over the place.

In the process of sourcing bar risers and 7mm bolts. At a guess, I want the bars up a similar amount if only to bring them closer to stock MAR bars in the stock position. No plans to redo my footpegs at this time. I currently run KX pegs on stock frame mounts. i am 5’10” tall with as some tell me stumpy short legs that are an inseam of 30”. Can you share how tall you are for comparison on raising the bars. Also, KT bars, any idea on how tall they are? Footpegs willl be redone on my friends bike, and he does run bar risers as I mentioned before.

In regards to the yokes (tripleclamps), the 2” you mention, was that fork tube offset or bar position? If bar position, was that 2” up or 2”” forward only with no height change? I realize you said forward in the post. Learning as much as possible.

On my bike, being resto mod it would certainly defeat keeping the theme of looking somewhat original, but no doubt would give mounting options. Yes, the 7mm bolts that secure the bars, well mine currently remain 7s, but I may convert to 8s if need be. What we have found, on EBay, are Honda 50 and clones Pitbike bar risers from China that can work. Does require finding longer bolts though. I may simply find the bolts, get a few lengths, then fabricate risers from flat material. Your setup certainly can be fine tuned. Curious, when you stepped up to 8mm, did you install the HeliCoils for added strength, or was there another reason.

The bike getting the footpeg mod, the owner has had several back surgeries, so any bending over forward is not comfortable for him. As for me wanting to raise the bars some, trying to find oem height bars the same as original MARs in something other than steel has been impossible so far. Currently running Renthal bars, the tallest trials 7/8 bars they offer. Still a bit lower than oem. So the modified bike will get footpegs lowered, and bar height reset for the riders comfort.

Actually, 51.5” is what I measured and that matched what feetupfun measured a few years ago. Not the shortest nor the longest, but does match what someone else posted that Miller, I assume Sammy Miller, apparently says 51.5” is optimum on the older bikes. Regardless, this is quite the learning lesson prior to making some cuts to the frame.

Yes, ratios are being determined, this morning with fresh eyes and brain, I am double checking my late night efforts I posted earlier. His bike already has bar risers. Pulled the bars foward slightly also. You mention a taller rider wanting the pegs down and aft. What is your opinion on moving them aft for the tall rider? Increased room or some other factor being changed? Months ago, on another website I asked if anyone knew how tall Mick Andrews is / was back when the MAR was designed. Simplya curiousity to have an idea of how tall the target rider for an MAR was back when they were new. Sadly, his height, posted by others, varied a bit. Regarding the use of the clutch. The sections in our local events, some certainly require use of the clutch to get the bike to corner tightly, while other times, the sections seem more old school where you simply ride using throttle control, balance, and turning skills. I will say, that while accomplishing all this research, and since I am modifying his frame, I remain curious about my own MAR and me as a rider shorter than my friend. Pretty certain I am either making or buying some risers for my handlebars. Not interested in lowering my forotpegs just yet since my frame is recently powdercoated.

Greg, yes. Prior to your post, I decided that on the MAR, the front / rear location seems somewhat optimized as delivered back in the day. For my friend, that is tall, the footpegs are being moved downward. How much is unknown at this point, but is the next variable to decide upon. Another post mentioned to lower them to the height of the axles. Next will be running a string from axle to axle and seeing how much change this creates and if the position is too low, too high still or possibly appears good. I have been looking at various photos of many OSSA MARs with relocated footpegs. The most extreme is 50mm down and 50mm aft. The owner mentions his goal was modern bike feel, and says it is now that way. My current though is as I mentioned simply downward with no change front to rear.

Yes, I messed up posting swingarm. It was late and I had both this topic and the one I linked open. Thats_A_Five posted swingarm length and it was on my brain when it should not have been. My measurement and calculation was as you described, actually using your posted formula. This morning I found the variation between your 26.2% and my 27.2%. Your numbers were likely taken on an MAR with oem stock footpegs, on stock mounts. Those footpegs were small overall and certainly not a large platform front to rear. This morning, I went back out and remeasured. My current setup has oem mounts on the frame, but uses Kawasaki KX footpegs. Last night I measured from the center of the footpeg, the KX peg, to rear axle. That came in at 14”. Remeasuring this morning, as if oem MAR footpegs were installed, the length decreses to 13.5” from footpeg center to rear axle. That 1/2” difference accounted for a 1% change. This became an eye opener when seeing where another person stated 29% was a good base number. Granted there is some minor measuring errors since the measuring was done directly with a tape measure vs obtaing the true dimension by dropping plumb bobs to the floor. Essentially, the tape meaure is close enough. Overall, as a general guide in helping to determine where to mount footpegs, all the info has been a huge help.