greeves

I am extremely interested in knowing the opinion about if the text posted by Woody above can promote the views in favour of modifying trials bikes, or if in the other hand it can be considered as something neutral that simply describes some facts. It looks pretty neutral to me, but I can be influenced by my own opinion.

In Spain it can not race in classics as it has brake disk. Just trials with aircolled monoshocks categories and racing against those bikes. I like that barrel !!!!!

That is brilliant Dave. Hope you don´t mind I put it in Spanish and post it in Spain(of course linking it to TC), as it would be really nice that so many people here can understand a bit more about the UK´s pre (specially pre65) scenario. Something really missunderstood in Spain.

Yes AtomAnt, I agree with this you say. But I think it is not right that dealers and factories play with the future of young persons promising them exactly that; a career in trials when they know for sure it is nothing but an expensive hobby. "Broken toys" we called them here in Spain, some as Alfredo have skills enough to make a living out of other sports or activities, but most of them are real "broken toys" and for sure would made the most of themselves studying, preparing themselves for a future proffesion rather than throwing their time away practicing with a trials bike dreaming to make their living out of this sport. Sad and unfair.

Very nice and rare bike Michael. Thanks for sharing.

The fron hub in my Mk2 is different, the rear the same. Also would like to know Chris the kind of exhaust system your bike has; the early one that crosses from left side of the barrel to right side of the bike underneath the seat and with no final silencer? Or the one with the final silencer? Carburettor in my Mk2 (Impala engine) is Amal 626 Pilot = 25 Main jet = 160 Needle jet = 106 Slider = 3

Hi again Chris: Funny engine you have there. Have a look to this bike I have and that I am actually restoring. Engine is 21 - 1941. Your´s can be really a prototype, but the thing is then it should have the big Impala hubs, not those ones as in my Mk2 and Mk3 bikes, also look the sliders, there is a big difference between the ones the Impala engines (Mk1 and Mk2) had and the Mk3 models (also with the gear in the right). Very odd.

Hi Chris: Nice bike, I have one like that, it is a very good bike for classic trials. Just one weak point; the gear box, specially first gear normally jumps out if it is not engaged properly. Take your time to engage it and move clutch and wheel a but while you engage several times to be sure. Apart of that a bike that gives no problems. The colour of the frame should be grey, and the engine side cover is for an earlier Cota, not that model. It should look as this one. I would very gladly buy that side cover if you want to give it it´s original look, as there are tough to find for earlier models. Do the engine numbre match with the frame? As the frame looks from a more recent model. The engine really looks as an Impala engine, the one earlier Cotas had. That rear sprockt looks too small, my advice try 9 / 48. The front wheel should be the oposite, just look the brake lever !!! Enjoy your restoration !!!!

This is exactly what I think tamdodds. That is how most classic trials should be. Here in Spain they are really trying to "professionalize classic trials" (speaking ironically) wanting to make a small "WCTC" (for World Classic Trials Championship) with new, complicated and crooked both sportive and technical rules. Regulating everithing, even the number of cups a moto club must give per category in their trials. But oddly in my opinion not wanting to introduce non-stop in classic events. And what they at last are achieving is a bad atmosphere, a loose of interest and a huge ammount of mouning on everything. South Spain, Andalucia has recently finished with classic trials, as they have joined both modern and classic with no separate events. Eastern Spain; Valencia Community (with a big number of classic pilots) has no classic calendar at the moment, just 1 trial for the whole year and nobody wants to prepare classic trials. In North East Spain, Catalonia (Mecca of Spanish trials) they have acquired hard technical rules, and in their first classic trial of the calendar they had 3 entries in pre65 category and 2 in pre72... And the scenario is bad, very bad in my opinion as they are shooting in the wrong direction, as our classic trials will be much more complicated and expensive to arrange with this rules, and less opened for any kind of customers. Of course there can allways be special events for special bikes (more original, modern, tuned or whatever).

Hi again; thanks for all the answers and also questions in this topic !!! I am really interested in it as here in Spain many people are claiming for a change in the classic trials scene and for me all the opinions here are wellcome. To be honest nobody has really answer my questions that beggined the topic: Is this 21

One thing I allways hear in classic trials organisers is: "We must mark tough sections to make the best pilots loose some dabs" and in my opinion it is not all about the best pilots, as of course they make a difference, but about the highly prepared and modified bikes that at last really need harder sections to put their pilots in difficulties. To be honest I can not see any difference in the sections that Sprite can do compared with a Bultaco Sherpa 199B, with a Honda TLR 250 or a Yamaha Majesty. But I see a big difference in the sections that FB needs in a trial compared with that Sprite. Then what is classic trials all about? Specially what are pre categories all about? The kind of bikes and sections there were done in those times or the kind of bikes and sections 21st century evolution are leading to?

I know there has allways been a big debate about pre65 bikes, specially when you come to speak about the Scottish pre65. I would really like to LEAVE APART THE SCOTTISH PRE65 and speak just about the 21´st Century evolution of pre65 bikes, and were and when should this evolution stop (if it needs to be stopped...). We can see what both technical and sportive rules are doing to the modern trials; will this happen with classic, specially pre categories?? To start the debate let me show the next example; this last weekend I went to Telford show, where you could see lots of pre65 bikes. ¿pre65 some of them? ¿really? Just have a look to this two: Ok yes, maybe both of them are tuned, that Francis Barnet can have a modern handlebar, an electronic ignition, a fork with spring/oil/air action, last generation shocks (spring/oil), and many more, but it really looks a pre65 bike, ins´t it? That Sprite also is equiped with a lightwight material frame, cutted sub frame, cutted frame under the engine, tubeless, highly modified exhaust for better performance, Marzochi fork with pre65 sliders, slider´s "bridge", shocks with combined action spring/oil/air, lighweight yokes and hubs... and maybe so many things my eyes can´t see. We could see in Telford those dry clutches with primary transmission by belt, and in the future what will we see in the pre65, pre72 or whatever bikes? Is this 21´st century evoluton going to continue and will it be something really good for classic trials? Or will it happen as with modern trials that evolution has transformed the sport and sections in something almost impossible to to attempt for a standard pilot?

I bought some small parts for my Montesa Cota 247 Mk2 project, Venhill cables, Betor shocks (the new aluminium ones) for just 130 Pounds (100 less than here in Spain) and some decalls and stickers. Would have bought this bike if I only had a van in Telford were to bring it here to Spain.

Agree. FIM and WTC need urgent and deep changes. Call it non-stop or how ever you want, but a real and realistic rethink of all this sport in it

Rotten refered to high competition trials and the world around it, not to all the sport in general. Sorry but language translations and differences can play this miss understandings.

Have a look to Alfredo Gomez

Hi all: Sorry for my long silence. Montesa were my beginnings in trials all Cota 25, Cota 123, Cota 247 and Cota 348 untill in 1978 I was given a brand new Bultaco Sherpa 198 to race with. The 1970 model is actually in pieces, some of them sent to crome, some to sandblast and paint, and the barrel sent to rebore. This weekend found some small parts I needed in Telford show. The last 2 years I have been using this 247 in competition. Very nice bike and easy to use, it is not too demanding if you make a mistake with the throttle, although the gear box is without any doubt it

Must say Telford Show 2012 has been ABSOLUTELY FANTASTIC !!! Much better than 2011 edition. Will be there in 2013.

Lorenzo, it should be: 5960 units - Model 199 from frame 198000001 to 198005960 6915 units - Model 199A from frame 198005961A to 198012875A 1778 units - Model 199B from frame 198012876B to 198014653B ------------------------------------------------------------ Total 14653 units of 325 and 350 cc in the 199 series More or less... But then again the numbers don´t add up correctly to me comparing with some of the books I have, as one of them says 199B started 199012885B, although the same book says the numbers of units and models produced of 199 series is exactly as I have written here. Odd.

I got the answer, I was in a big mistake !!! It looks you have to add all the 198

It is very strange, but that engine and frame numbers; 19804086B of that 3,200 Pounds bike don´t add up to me. (sorry to talk about this, but the pics showing both are actually still in Ebay and have been displayed for a long time there) 199B production was of 1778 bikes, and 198B just 270 units, so the frames and numbers should start in 000001 and end in the number of units produced, 001778 for 199B and 000270 for 198B, so this is very odd to me a 198B number 4086. Maybe I am in a mistake and the numbers of 19-B´s follow a different pattern. Could be as there are actually the last bikes produced by Bultaco after the owners left the company on hands of the workers...

At the moment this are just the new rules for the brand new "Sotobike Trophy". This rules will just be used to grant a handicap to the bikes depending in their preparation. The new "Sotobike Trophy" will be a teams trophy, based in teams of 3 riders and scoring in the 3 Two Days International Trials we arrange for in Robregordo, Pobladura and Los Angeles, with also an individual classification. The handicaps will be: PRE 65 - 0.6 PRE 72 - 0.8 PRE 80 - 1 POST 80 - 1,2 OPEN - 1,4 Aircooled Monos - 1,7 The innovations here are 1.- Everibody will have a place in our trials; tuned, original and even Mono´s bikes. 2.- With the exception of handlebars, shocks, modified footrests and other small stuff; your bike will be penalized or favored with a handicap depending in the components you have. For example; a pre65 with a PHBL carburrettor will be considered a Post80, and consequently have a handicap of 1,2 - with an Amal Mk1 the handicap for the same bike will be 0,6. If your bike is a Fantic 240 with a 307 fork, it will be send to OPEN and have a handicap of 1,4. A Bultaco model 92 with an aluminium swingarm will be sent to OPEN category... and so on. 3.- Aircooled monos are admitted, but will race with the same non stop rules. BUT as I wrote this rules will be just for our trials and will only be used in our trials and to assign a handicap. In the Federation; both Spanish (RFME) and Cataluña (FCM) are preparing new rules for their championships, and it looks (obviously I don´t want to use the word rumors....) they will be quite hard. Well see and I will let you know as soon as I know about them. EDIT to add that the warning red light you can read in Todotrial is: No vendáis ni tiréis las piezas originales de vuestras motos que hayáis sustituido por otras más modermas, puede que tengáis que volver a ponerlas... Ni modifiquéis demasiadas cosas si alguien se está haciendo una moto en estos momentos, porque es posible que tenga que rehacerlas... DO NOT SELL OR WAIST THE ORIGINAL PARTS OF YOUR MOTORCYCLES IF YOU HAVE REPLACED THEM BY MODERN ONES AS MAYBE YOU HAVE TO GO BACK TO THEM. IF SOMEBODY IS STARTING A PROJECT, BETTER DON´T MODIFY THINGS, AS MAYBE YOU HAVE TO REDO THEM...

I haven

Being 10,000 km. away and really not knowing a word about who you are talking with, I consider your first replies quite aggressive and clearly, in my opinion of course, trying to intimidate, ridicule and threaten me to get my silence. Maybe as you say it is just