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Well they are not the two sitting in my garage as I know their numbers! True the larger capacity fuel tanks were made for the SSDT, I should be able to check who rode Seeleys in the trial but I doubt if anyone could confirm if that bike was used.
Big John
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Back in 1973 (the first time I was actually at the Scott, what an experience) there was an old chap rode a beautiful Scott two-stroke watercooler with purple barrells, round the roads and parked at the roadside section my Dad and I we were spectating at (Windegg they called the section). The bike was absolutely mint, I would doubt if the rider was still alive now, but just wondered if the bike was still around?
I have a photo of it somewhere taken with my Kodak Instamatic!
I think that was the year Rob Edwards won the trial and they filmed it all from a helicopter which followed him across the moors, now doubt a Scott Expert will keep me right on that
Also have photos of Dave Thorpe on an Ossa; Pat Ewen from Dublin & Dist on a Bulto, Sid lampkin on a new for that year 325 Bultaco and so on.
Can't wait for saturday 20th October!
Big John
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Hi Charlie,
To be honest my old pal "Tweedside Tuner" Mel Hume changed the oil in the forks recently as a favour (I have been busy recently) and I'm not that sure what is in it, knowing him it's probably Silkolene fork oil 10W, but I can let you into a wee secret here, the engine and gearbox of my Matchless is lubed by Castrol Classic GP50!!!
Back to the subject in hand, fairness has nothing to do with it. What did the regular trials rider ride before 31st December 1964? (when I was 7 years old) Certainly not Otters except for Scott boy who was a factory man after all! For sure there have always been "specials" and "Bitsas", Pre-1965 and sure enough a number of British Bike trials have a specials class, but at Kinlochleven it is just not possible to have this, it simply flies in the face of the whole concept of riding "Scotland". The Pre65 has for many years been massively oversubscribed and I have heard almost every conceivable suggestion as to how to accommodate 360 riders up there (the maximum is 180 because of the RAC permissions for road trial legislation by the way).
What IMHO the organisers have tried to do is recreate a old "mini SSDT" as it was in the days before Sammy brought out his version of the Sherpa. The organisers have a tough job on their hands and always have had with machine eligibility, that problem will never go away. It would be best for all having original type bikes up there instead of the multitude of specials and so on. After all, the Inverness club can easily cater for that side of Pre65 trialling!
Not an easy subject, there are many twists and turns, but for sure the organisers are unmoved by the appeals for legalisation of the Otter type of machine.
Oh and in case I do get a wee hurl next season at Kinlochleven, I may be BSA mounted (B40, maybe just for a change) but even that has proper BSA forks, frame and nothing fancy. I had considered spending some dosh on getting it tricked up like Eric Boocock's BSA, but in the end I settled for fairly standard.
My advice (for what it is worth) to all concerned for riding up north in 2008 and beyond is this:
Enter on as big a bike as you dare ride.
Enter on as original a bike as you can get your hands on.
Don't switch bikes just before the start i.e enter on an AJS and turn up with a fancy Cub! (You can bet your bottom dollar if you do, that will be noted!!!)
Don't even think about riding a Sherpa no matter how old you think it is, that goes for Montesa and Ossa derivatives as well.
Take a note out of Clive Dobson's book (Norton 500T rider of note whose bike isn't full of Lotus parts or anything remotely manufactured overseas!) Over to you Clive if you have read this...
Most of all, if you do get to ride Scotland, enjoy it , for that my friends is what it is finally all about.
Big John
(Remember that disclaimer guys!)
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The Otter was basically similar in idea to Miller's "Hi-Boy" frame. Take a standard Bultaco or Bessa frame if you like, a large hacksaw, half an hour of your time (if you can handle a hacksaw) and hey presto a "Hi-Boy" is born. OK you still have to plate it up and get a stout bashplate knocked up, but that in theory is that.
The overbearing rule is that if your frame is devoid of frame rails under the motor (unless it's an HT5 Ariel) then it probably isn't OK for the Pre65 Scottish.
I know that some four stud forks have ridden the Scottish 2 Day, but their rider hasn't always appeared in the programme the following year! Reason, quite simple, notes are taken and decisions made, I'll leave the rest up to your imagination.
The Pre65 Scottish doesn't need:
Bikes with parts that are not acceptable
Bultacos
Montesas
Ossas
Case rested m'laud!
Big John
(please note my standard legal disclaimer: Big John is not acting as a spokesman for the organisers of the Pre65 Scottish Trial and his thought are not necessarily those of the organisers. Big John also usually rides a very heavy 350 Matchless which under scruitiny bears a striking resemblance to being a fairly standard devoid of vast modifications from standard bike which carries a set of forks devoid of any foreign matter whatsoever )
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To my knowledge "Otter" style frames on BSA's are not acceptable/eligible in the Pre65 Scottish Two day.
Also BSA "Four-Stud" type front forks are a definate no-no as they came out into series production in 1969!
Big John
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New club formed I hear!
BAOFR
(British Association Of Fat Riders)
Just a rumour...
Big John
(I'm big but I'm not Fat!)
Members to date:
Slapshot 3
Gizza5 - top class rider mind, definately an expert
Big John (slimmest of the pack)
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Spares especially consumables are in plentiful supply.
Some models of Montesa were prone to gearbox problems and gearbox parts are hard to come by (Sandifords don't stock much old stuff now) so try to avoid unless another bike comes along without the problem (rare) to enable a fix.
Most Bultaco parts are still available from Sammy Miller or Dave Renham at Bultaco UK.
Really it's down to buying a good condition bike in the first place, if you are not sure, don't buy no matter how cheap, you don't want to inherit other folks trouble!
Big John
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Hi Gregr,
I have replied with my thoughts. Also don't forget Dave Renham at Bultaco UK for information!
Big John
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Robin Rhind-Tutt (Wasp manufacturer) did make a series of frame kits for the Sherpa, one of which was ridden in the SSDT by Arthur Headland, that was about 1970/71. I also think George Greenland ran one as well.
Yes, Steve Wilson made a kit and for later models a square section swinging arm kit, Steve made his variant about 1976/77 from memory.
Big John
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Difficult one to answer as I don't possess a Cabestany Sherco, but I have heard of others having similar problems!!
Did you buy the bike new or used?
Big John
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Common trait of the four-stroke motor, they run way much hotter than a two-stroke. Fan cutting in often is OK, they tend to settle down after a bit of use, but they will tend to cut in more often than a 2T motor.
Situation normal as they say.
Big John
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Deffo lost some impetus there! Think we should start a new rumour...how about a guaranteed SSDT entry for everyone who donates online?!! That'd get them coming in thick and fast!!
Good on you lot who've already donated....and to those of you still thinking about it, don't worry - it can wait until payday...
For Gawds sake NO!
I want my money back then, imagine if I won the guaranteed entry, I hope you were kidding HL?
I'd lose my broadcasting job for a start!
Big John
...sh*t, creek and paddle spring to mind!
It would be for me, at my time of life!
Anyway, SACU have stumped up, more sponsors please!...
Big John
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Deffo lost some impetus there! Think we should start a new rumour...how about a guaranteed SSDT entry for everyone who donates online?!! That'd get them coming in thick and fast!!
Good on you lot who've already donated....and to those of you still thinking about it, don't worry - it can wait until payday...
For Gawds sake NO!
I want my money back then, imagine if I won the guaranteed entry, I hope you were kidding HL?
I'd lose my broadcasting job for a start!
Big John
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Mike Hann has been out of the motorcycle trade for some years now. I did sell some items on e-bay to his daughter about 12 months ago, some memorabilia that she bought as a birthday present, she said that he had packed up and wasn't as involved nowadays. If I can find the details I will post sometime later. Best person to speak to who is in circulation is in fact Julian Wigg as he did a lot of work on Fantics too, including barrel modifications.
Big John
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I have to agree with Kinell, I didn't specifically mention above the fact that McRae family friends, 6 year old Ben Porcelli and 37 year old Graeme Duncan also perished in the accident as I was of course posting about Colin's untimely death. Nonetheless, a tragic event which affects more than just the McRae family.
Big John
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Just to add a little more information on Colin McRae that is not widely known and will no doubt be of interest on this, a trials website. We all know Colin McRae as being the 1995 World Rally Champion, but he started out his motorsport career as a Scottish trials rider in the then "schoolboy" (now known as youth) ranks.
It was at the instigation of his father Jimmy, who, as a member of the Avon Valley Club was foremost a Scottish scrambles rider who actually came second in the 1969 Scottish ACU Scrambles championship riding a 25cc Y4 AJS, the winner being Roy Black on a Jimmy Morton sponsored Bultaco.
Jimmy McRae realised the benefits of his son Colin riding trials as it was an excellent way to learn about different surfaces and what can happen if you do not read the ground in front of you. There was a really nice photo made very large of Colin riding a 200cc Montesa Cota twinshock, well actually a photo of him picking the bike up having had a big five in a section. It appeared at one of the Scottish Motorcycle Shows not too many years ago. Colin was more than a little embarrased when he called in on his way home and spotted it on display at the McRobert Pavillion at Ingliston that year!
Colin did go on to win the Jack Gow Trophy for the 1981 Scottish Intermediate Trials Championship. Colin maintained an interest in the sport of trials, but never really made a comeback to it, having sampled motocross and latterly some enduros.
Colin as a youth was a member of the Lanarkshire MCC during his trials riding career.
From humble beginnings, but with the aid and assistance of his five times British Open Rally championship winning father, he went on to greater things in the four wheel arena, but that has all been spoken about in various books and publications over the years.
Rest in peace Colin, you have made a lot of Scottish people proud to be Scottish having achieved greatness in the world of motorsport.
Sincerest condolences to Jimmy and his wife Margaret who have not only lost their eldest son but also a grandchild in this terrible accident and of course not least of all to his widow and the rest of the McRae family.
Big John
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I tried phoning a couple of my contacts who are close to the family, but no answer, one of them lives close by.
Personally I know Jim his father, I had little contact with Colin other than when he rode Lanarkshire trials as a schoolboy.
I fear for the worst.
Colin was 1981 Scottish Intermediate Youth Champion (now Youth B class) winner of the Jack Gow Trophy.
Big John
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Awwwww...
You spoiled the fun by taking the header back to urgent when it was cancelled, wouldn't you have got more dosh in by leaving it the way it was, that would have been much more fun!
Best of luck with your fund-raising, I'm already accounted for and have a great ride as well guys...
Big John
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Are you sure???!!!!
Well I've parted with my brass for the SSDT team at the Scott last night!
As Jonesy of the Home Guard used to say...Don't Panic; Don't Panic!
Big John
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Bloody Hell OTH!
You got me really worried there.
I'll put a few quid on you guys, for sure, worthy cause and all that!
I hope the Scott Trial has a good timekeeper?
Big John
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Alan Wright:
01789 751422
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Not at all lammywolf, be my guest!
Big John
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This was the year! 1959. L to R: Geoff Parker; Ludo More (A Scotsman, old friend of mine) and Alan Kimber at Gorgie Cattle Market, Edinburgh before the off on the Monday morning...
Big John
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The Spanish lads fit Frontera footrests which are slightly wider than Sherpa rests, I like them and you don't have to start all over again!
Big John
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