billyt

I think they change the front due to two things: 1. You don't have to add links 2. A bigger rear sprocket is more prone to catching on rocks

Riders dont gear down on the front to lower first gear they usually gear down to make second gear more usable i.e. lower. They then use first gear as a grannie gear and second as a general riding gear. There are sections where torque is needed and sections where speed is needed. I think that you are correctly mathematically/physics but wrong in practicality. Trials riders when changing front sprockets 99 out of a 100 times will put a lower front sprocket on. You can throw all the math you want at us it does not change the fact that we put smaller front sprockets on our bikes.

This list would not be complete without throwing in a mention for the OSSA.

Not sure about the Keihin carb, But on the Mikuni the spring under the Viton tipped fuel shut off plunger is there to take care of the very issue Xerittio, Dan, 007 speak of. There are also two separate adjustments on the tangs. One for travel and one for fuel level. This is the same adjustments regardless of make.

Mmmmmm. Kids and carbs...............

If you chop the levers you would not be allowed to ride any sanctioned event. Why? The ball at the end of the levers would be cut off. The ball is there for safety reasons i.e. to stop it puncturing through you should you fall.

Xeriotti This topic has been covered SOOOOO many times before. Try and find the article I wrote on this about ten years ago posted on here somewhere. The solution I presented back then has been used by Dan and others to much success (jump in Dan).

Mokwepa.... let me get this straight........ Xeriotii Says he's going to put on some porn and make a video, a video of his first ride (virgin) and you want pictures LOL Good luck with the bike Xeriotti. You waited a long time for this.

Hey Chuck A question: Did you replace the stock air screw at the bottom of the 4T (the one that is a bitch to get to) with an after market thumb adjuster? If so, where did you source it from? Thanks Chuck

The valve gap needs to be checked. A bitch to get to but easy to do once exposed.

Dave, you are an inspiration in how you keep riding in your golden years. I guess I am just feeling all doom and gloom and wondering if I will ever be able to ride again. Two broken ribs and told today I have a torn rotator cuff in my shoulder and need surgery. How do you come back from that?

Hoggy Bummer about the oil. Here is the spec. Notice the "RS" on the bottle it stands for Reduced Slippage. According to THe Castrol Rep I spoke to. Good luck. you want to go with as lower viscosity as possible. It took one flush with this stuff for a few a few hours and an other dump with a new bottle to feel the full results. Your experience may be different. CASTROL POWER RS RACING 4T ULTIMATE POWER AND PERFORMANCE Castrol Power RS Racing with Trizone Technology™ is a premium-quality, full synthetic 4-stroke motorcycle oil designed to ensure maximum power and performance, even under the most demanding riding conditions. Its anti-friction formulation is proven to increase acceleration compared to conventional motorcycle oils. BENEFITS Race-derived technology for maximum engine acceleration Extreme high-temperature air-cooled and water-cooled engine performance Excellent shear stability to prevent viscosity breakdown Superior high-speed engine protection to help extend engine life Outstanding oil consumption and control, gearshift quality and wet-clutch performance <a name="7282110"> SPECIFICATIONS API SERVICE: Exceeds API SL JASO (T903): JASO MA-2 VISCOSITY: SAE 5W-40 // 10W-40 // 10W-50 PDS/MSDS

One more scenario to add to the mix. The higher the revs the higher the voltage the higher the voltage the higher the current the more ability it has to jump gaps. Opening and closing a manual switch is guess work as we have no idea as to the gap distance. while the magnet type (lanyard) has a more defined magnet gap/movement of known repeatable distances. There are two types of kill switch system: One: Current sourcing. The switch is always closed and when you press it it opens up cutting the current, all well in theory however once you get the bike up revving high it does not want to shut off and the current jumps the gap. it then acts like points used to do on non CDI ignitions burning them with carbon deposits and making them unreliable. This is a poor system. Two: Current sinking: The switch is always open. When you press it, it shorts the current to ground. The reliability is now on how good your ground is and how long you are pressing the button for. The problem with #2 is that even you are pressing the button the engines is still turning under momentum and giving the impression that the kill button is not working you release and press again going around in a loop.

Geez this was a long time ago (circa 1995) ........... My hair has all gone now and I am even shorter LOL Nothing like looking back at old pictures to make you feel REALY OLD......... What trials related pictures do you have that make you feel old

Hoggy I known you said it it would not go into neutral and was what started it all off for you, but did it drag before you took the clutch pack out? Since this is a 2004 and ran on ATF in my deduction it points to the following: Friction plates are warped Fibre plates expanded due to age, type of fluid (ATF) and if you left the ATF wet fibre plates out for several hours or overnight they will have expended due to not having pressure on them as when the do in the clutch pack assembly installed on the bike. Changing the type of clutch fluid right now is redundant as what ever was in there prior is well soaked into the fibre plates by now. If the bike is truly a 2004 and still on the original clutch pack then it is due for a new set of friction plates and fibre plates anyway. I would get a new clutch pack install dry (after doing Dan's mod) and use the oil I recommended or some thing similar of your choosing. If you do put a new clutch pack in it will still have more drag than a well worn in 2004 clutch pack as it is thicker and tighter but at least you will wear it in correctly and quickly. As for Triple Zero 7 comment the clutch wear limit I agree will tell you its out which I have no doubt it is, it is the why and solution we are after. A really good clutch (one that releases and does not drag) can be witnessed by putting it on a bike stand (after been well warmed up) starting the bike up, sticking it in 1st gear the back wheel will spin pull the clutch in and it should stop turning. This is a tough test and most bikes will not pass it. The highest percentages of bikes will properly stop turning the back wheel clutch pulled in third gear. What gear does your bikes back wheel stop turning on on a bike stand and in gear with the clutch pulled in?

I would start with backing out the small screw on the lever that actuates the clutch. If this is set wrong the piston in the master cylinder reservoir does not travel all the way back trapping fluid causing all sorts of anomalies.

HoggyF I wrote this a while back. I re-posted here as you may get some pointers out of it. Cheers..... BillyT After many years of riding trials it finally happened to me, the dreaded “clutch drag”. I guess it was inevitable, I had read about, heard people talk about, but never actually experienced it for myself. Can it be real or just a myth? I had read with much respect and interest Dan William’s research and solutions to his clutch dragging issues and read all the testaments to this being the miracle cure. Being faced with the issue for myself I soon came to realize after all the years of riding trials bikes I have never had a need to really dig in and understand what is actually going on with a trials clutch. But if I want to cure this dragging clutch on my new 2013 Beta 300cc Factory then I better educate myself on the clutch workings. Standing upon Dan’s shoulders of the great work he has done it was a good starting point for me. So you take out the plates and clean up all the glue crap between the fibre steps! Okay, no doubt this works, but why? Surely there must be more to it than that? Some people although in the minority have claimed this did not work for them, Some people use ATF some use purpose made clutch/engine oil all with various results, but why? So let the research begin. Lets break clutch drag into three basic culprits: Mechanical Viscous Coupling Physics Mechanical: The following fall into this category Warped friction plates Warped clutch plates Swollen fibre plates Notches in the outer clutch basket Notches in the inner clutch basket Nicks on the metal tabs of the friction or fibre plates Not enough travel on the clutch push rods A race clutch that has tight tolerances resulting in less clearance between plates when disengaged. The clutch not separating evenly due to machining imperfections Viscous Coupling For those of you not familiar with Viscous coupling it is basically a fluids ability to transfer motion between two plates a slight distance apart through the fluid itself. It is used on various 4WD systems and machinery. Physics The viscosity of the engine oil used The temperature at start up affecting engine clutch oil viscosity The temperature of the engine clutch oil once the bike is warmed up. Centrifugal force Shear of the oil surface between two plates. Vacuum. Surface tension Excess glue and residue in between the tabs causing the above So lets clarify some of these things from a technical perspective. Shear of the oil surface between two plates, Vacuum, Surface Tension If one takes two sheets of glass and places some oil in-between them and the presses them together the next person who comes along trying to separate them by pulling them apart in lateral (equal and opposite) manner will not be able to do so. They will have to slide them apart one surface going up the other down. This is due to the oils surface tension and the air that was forced out upon squeezing them together has now created a vacuum. Multiple that by several clutches friction plates to fibre plates and one can quite easily see how the potential for a friction plate to stay stuck to a fibre plate is there. What is needed is a surfactant. A surfactant is basically what soap is, it breaks the surface tension on our hands, dishes to let the water actually get to the surface etc in essence making the water wetter by breaking down the surface tension. But who in their right mind would put soap in their transmission or clutch LOL 2.0 Centrifugal force Have you ever seen or tried the gyroscopic trick where you sit on a free moving rotating chair, you are given a bicycle wheel to hold at the axle. You hold the wheel upright an assistant spins the wheel and you try to turn it side ways. It tries to fight you and wants to stay upright spinning in its own orbit both axle and radial. Well a spinning clutch is basically a gyroscope. It is spinning and wants to stay in its own radial orbit. You pull the clutch in, wanting it to separate in the axle direction by basically friction plate’s fibre plates moving away from each other. But the gyroscope effects are fighting it wanting the plates to stay in their own orbit. Couple that with the above sheer friction of the oil and it is a wonder that plates actually separate at all. So if your clutch drag issue is caused by surface tension, sheer of the oil, vacuum then Dan’s procedure or ATF is the way to go. I propose that Dan’s procedure works by reducing the sheer of the oil surface tension, and helping break the vacuum. This is achieved by the filing of a ninety-degree angle when you are filing away the glue and crap. The sharpened ninety-degree angle edges helps break down the oil sheer, breaking the vacuum as each plate is spinning trying to slip against the other and the oil in between. The excess glue build up only adds to the problem by keeping the oil shear and vacuum going. With no distinct hills and valleys it is detrimental to plate separation. I will also propose that this is the reason ATF works without the clutch mod as it sheer strength and vacuum causing characteristics are much different than regular clutch/engine oil. And now for the caveat: How does one know what one of the three basic areas i.e. Mechanical, Viscous Coupling, Physics or combination of all three is the culprit? Well that's where my experimenting came into play. Temperatures in the high 80F Dry weather, Sea level. Bike came with Motul engine oil. Changed to Mobile One Motorcycle oil after a few rides. I have used Mobile One for many years. He is my scenario. With the original Motul oil the clutch dragged. The clutch continued to drag after changing to Mobile One motorcycle oil. The clutch dragged inconsistently as I was riding it. It was good it was bad all through the day. In the past with other Beta’s I have owned I could place the bike on a bike stand start the bike let it warm up and put it into 1stgear pull the clutch in and the back wheel would stop or be very easily stopped by placing a hand on it. This was not the case with this Factory 300cc What I needed was away to logically break this down into which one of the three main areas (Mechanical. Viscous Coupling, Psychics) was causing my issue. Mechanical: Brand new bike…. The reality of warped clutch plates or fibre plates hardly likely. Swollen fibre plates hardly likely. Notches in the basket not likely. Other wear or tear not likely due to age of bike (barely broken in). But until I took the clutch apart I would not know for certain. Viscous Coupling: Trying to find out the Viscous Coupling characteristics of Motul or Mobile One was a long shot at best so I put that one to rest. Physics: There was nothing I could do about gyroscopic effects. I was contemplating to dump a bottle of washing up liquid into my Mobile One engine oil. That would surely be a great surfactant it would break down the surface tension letting the plates separate. Okay bad idea! I needed another way to test the surface tension theory. As stated earlier I think Dan’s process works on reducing the shear and surface tension effect so why not try it out. So off comes the clutch. Checked for all the mechanical potential issues warped disks etc no issue there. Checked out the clutch for Dan’s excess glue etc. There was excess glue all right but did not really look that bad. But I followed Dan’s instructions, painstakingly removing all traces of glue etc from between the plates. Re-assembled the clutch pack and re installed. Another 500cc of fresh Mobil One motorcycle oil and fired her up. Got her good and warm and…….. and …….. the clutch was still inconsistent. ****……… now what. Short of calling Dan I proceeded. What other Physics issue could there be that I can actually control? I still had the nagging notion that viscous coupling was not eliminated from the equation but I needed a way to test my theory. So why not dump all the oil out of the cases, with no oil in the bike Viscous Coupling would not be an issue and therefore I could verify or eliminate Viscous Coupling as a culprit. I needed to do this in such a way as not to burn up my clutch or seize my gearbox. Dumped the oil, put the bike on the stand, started it up revved it slowly, pulling in the clutch to fling off any oil in between the plates, letting the clutch go in a VERY gentle manner as not to burn the plates. Pulled the clutch in, Put the bike in 1st gear let the clutch out slowly. The back wheel started to turn (of course) pulled the clutch in and PRESTO the back wheel stopped turning all by itself. Repeated this several times with constant results. What the crap I thought! I do have some viscous coupling in this equation. Now what? I cant run my bike without oil! So it was off to Google to find out what oils for wet based clutches where out there. No motorcycle oil manufacturer out there talks about viscous coupling specs of their clutch engine oil. So it was trial and error. To cut a long story short after testing many different oils I tried a bottle of Castrol 5W 40 RS 4T engine Clutch oil and it did the trick. I can put my bike on the stand now start it, pull the clutch in and the back wheel stops. The clutch is consistent. I am happy. But the story does not stop there. Why is that Mobile One has worked for me all these years and now it does not? Why is that Dan’s process works for some people and not others? Here is my take on the whole clutch drag issue. One has to first determine if it is Mechanical, Viscous Coupling, or Physics at play or a combination of all of the above. No amount of glue removal will help if the clutch plates are warped or friction plates are warped. No glue removal will help with swollen fibre plates or notched tabs. However if oil shear, vacuum, and surface tension are at play Dan’s process is the cats meow. I feel I had two issue on my bike since it is a factory spec bike and the clutch is somewhat changed for this newer model it has a 2013/2014 factory clutch “A race clutch that has tight tolerances resulting in less clearance between plates when disengaged”. This amplified the oil sheer and vacuum effect and surface tension. Due to the tighter tolerances on this clutch the viscous effect was coming into play as the clutch plates do not separate as far and the Mobile One and Motul oil viscous coupling characteristics what ever they where contributing to drag while the Castrol Oil did not show signs of viscous coupling. Dan’s process alone did not eliminate this effect but I am sure if one does his process on an none race clutch or one that has some wear on it will do the trick for you. So before you trouble shoot your dragging clutch, do some homework and determine if it is mechanical, viscous coupling or physics at play. So, if your bike does not show signs of drag on the ground, can you put it on a stand start it up put it into gear pull the clutch and have the back wheel stop all by itself? If so you have great clutch. Cheers BillyT tltel likes this Quote MultiQuote =339055&st=&auth_key=674da82ffdde8bea08b0d8b8bca9df69"]Delete Edit

Kev69 Your pilot jet is too lean. The 4T Beta's come lean from the factory to pass emissions. Go one full step up on the Mikuni pilot jet. Cheers BillyT

Has it been confirmed yet that Honda UK is going to be importing the 2014 4RT into the UK? As for the USA & Canada do we know yet who is importing them? Will they be sold out of regular Honda dealers in these three countries? Has anybody ordered one yet? Sorry for all the questions, but somebody had to ask them LOL

Firstly what gear are you in? If I understand you correctly you are trying go over the log with only the back wheel hitting the log? If that is the case then you need to go slower up to the log and about a bikes lengths away pull the clutch in revving the bike all while loading the suspension once loaded and revved dump dump the clutch and unload. You are basically going to splatter the log. This is best done in second gear.

The drugs, oh the drugs they gave me to take. I feel like superman when I take the pain killers and could tackle any big rocks on these things LOL I hope they are not addictive............

The clicking is weird. I guess they are still floating hence the clicking? I guess when they start knitting back they stop moving freely and the clicking goes away? After they are all healed and you got back on the horse did you ride very gingerly avoiding all rocks etc scared that you would fall and land on them? Are they weaker after they heal or stronger?

Looking forward to seeing your editing work. Please don't add crazy music in the background. People want to hear the bikes not music. if they wanted to hear music they would just listen to a CD........

Mines was broke on the back next to my spine..... yours................. ?

WOW........ I did not know that broken ribs was a pretty normal thing amongst you weekend warriors. I had a big off down a big slab/hill landed at the bottom face down, thought that was scary as I lay face down in the dirt and as I slowly arose from the dirt WHAM............. the handle bar slammed into my back slamming me into the dirt once again. Could not breath, went to the urgent care and the result was two broken ribs and one ruptured shoulder. Now I am wondering will I be able to ride again if and when this heals. Hearing your war stories makes me think I not alone in having a bike attack the rider and being able to get back on the horse once healed. The big question now is do I sell the evil bike that try to kill me or have her put down?