billyt

I think the point I was trying to make: 1. When the question is posed about "what oil" they are really asking what is the best oil for my clutch. 2. I have never heard of gears going bad etc in a trials gear box due to the wrong type of oil selected. 3. If we purely choose a liquid for the clutch and the clutch alone so that the clutch performed at its best would the owner who used the best clutch type liquid ever experience a gear box problem in the time they own the bike? Would a problem even occur? 4. If we did choose to use a liquid that only satisfied the clutch's needs what would that liquid be?

I agree Dave............ All technique............... One other thing that caught my attention tonight when I fired up my 300cc Beta. The Beta is a left hand start I am right handed so right footed. This makes my left foot/leg the weaker foot/leg (in theory) so I am not as adapted / strong with my left foot/leg and less aggressive as I would be if it where right hand start. I think this may be the case with other right handed Beta riders trying to start a big bore 300cc with their left foot/leg ??????

Quote: "I have spent many years explaining how technical stuff works" As most of us have on this forum. In fact there are many guys on here who do it rather well and have done so for many, many years! Some of us even do it for a living!

After many years on this forum and the prior Trails Action forum the many times posed question of "Which is the best oil to use in the gear box" has me thinking. After close to 35 years of riding trials I have never heard a rider state "took my gear box apart and the teeth where all wore out and galded" "my gears are all worn down" "my gears have too much play due to wear on them". The point I am trying to make is that how many gear trains did we have go bad due to choosing the wrong type of oil ? I would guess none? I guess what we are really asking when posing the question "Which is the best oil to use in the gear box" is, what oil works best for my clutch in the way of not grabbing, smoothness of action etc. The actual oil's gear performance is secondary or assumed with preference given to clutch performance. But are they exclusive, meaning a great oil for the clutch is a crap oil for the gears or vise versa! Are these oils we are choosing a compromise? When we visit a motorcycle shop to buy oil do we really read the label on the bottle with gear lubrication performance in mind or clutch performance in mind? If we choose a lubricating liquid purely based upon clutch performance, and to hell with GOOD or GREAT (just have basic lubrication) gear lubrication, would we know the results in short order? In other words some of us don't keep a bike that long for an issue like worn out gears to manifest itself during a bikes initial ownership? I know if we used the best type of oil for gear train lubrication alone it would make the clutch work like crap! With this being said what clutch lubricating liquids would we use if the clutch performance was the only criteria? I have some in mind, but would like to hear others thoughts on this matter! Dan, this is right up your alley mon ami! Your thoughts guys!

Clarky Try this to help you get the technique down. Disconnect the spark plug wire. Now push the bike over practicing good swift hard full stroke foot pumps or rather pushes (do not turn the throttle when doing so as it will flood the engine) . You can do this without fear of it kicking back on you and allowing you to develop your technique. Once you feel you are getting good hard full stroke pushes with full travel then re-connect spark plug wire. For clarity, calling it a "Kick starter" or telling you give it hard fast kickstarts is a bad misnomer as you really do not want to kick it as this will surely cause it to back fire. Not to be anal about the word but we really should be saying "push it down with your foot". When you kick it down with your foot energy alone it will stop once you meet resistance, where as a foot placed firmly on a partly loaded kick starter and a bent leg loaded and then pushed down fast, hard and full stroke is really what we are after. DO NOT PUSH DOWN WITH YOUR FOOT/LEG UNTILL IT IS IN FULL CONTACT WITH A LOADED KICK STARTER. YOUR FOOT AND LEG SHOULD BE FULLY LOADED AND PRIMED TO STRIKE NOT TRAVELING THOUGH THE AIR ON A HARD DOWNWARDS PATH AND THEN MEETING UP WITH A KICK STARTER LEVER. Load the kick starter by pushing it down gently with your foot, get it just past TDC, and then push hard, and fast, and all the way down. Cheers BillyT

0007 I say black you say white. The goal her is to help Clarky, not to try and prove me wrong for the sake of doing so. You have your experiences I have mine. I spent all weekend (Saturday & Sunday) riding and getting to know how to start my new 300cc Beta. The technique I stated works for me and I will stand by what I said.

I have a brand new Beta 300cc EVO 2T Factory that I picked up last week. The bike runs great, no CDI problems, no changes. If your bike runs great once started then there is no CDI issue or wood ruff key issue. If you have no pre detonation (pinking) issue once the bike actually runs then then pre detonation is not an issue. The bike will kick back when it is not pushed through its entire stroke PERIOD. I had a 250cc Beta before the 300cc Beta and I had to modify or be more forceful and committed in starting the 300cc. I do not not have any kick back now that I learned how to take the kick starter all the way through. The bigger the bore the more pronounced this affect will be. Once you get the kick starter all the way down it will not and can not kick back even if the engine is running. Your are experiencing a mechanical issue (starting technique) NOT a CDI issue. Even if it is a pre detonation at start up, the force you apply through the committed aggressive long and fast travel of the kick starter will drive it on through the pre detonation. A little mind game that was taught to me is: Stop trying to start the bike by kicking it down until it starts. Instead think of a technique goal or action where you are trying to just get the kick starter down all the way and overcome the resistance in a quick forceful maner. Once you get this technique down the bike starting is just an attribute of this action. The other KEY is the speed in which you push the kick starter down. The perfect blend of force and speed is critical in starting a big bore bike. If you where to analyze the stroke of the piston to the stroke of the kick starter, you would find that if the piston reaches the firing point before the kick starter nears the bottom and the first fire of the plug ignites the fuel successfully the bike will try to kick back. The goal is to get the kick starter down near the bottom of its stroke before the piston reaches the top of its firing stroke. The other little trick is to pre load the piston with the kick starter so that it is just broke over TDC and has to travel down and then up on the next kick. In other words push the kick starter down gently until you just get it past TDC and then give it the almighty fast and heavy kick with a long travel.

Clarky I have a 300cc Beta. If you do not kick it COMPLETELY through its stroke it WILL kick back on you! The key is to kick COMPLETELY through its stroke EVERY TIME. A bike will rarely kick back when all the way through its stroke as it gets past its cranking angle once fully down. This can be proven by being able to hold the kick starter fully down even though the bike has started. The bike can be running but the starter will not kick it will just sit there and grind the crap out of the gears. NOT recommended to try, but just said to prove my point.

If you did NOT have this circular play then you WOULD have a problem. The piston has to some what float in the cylinder head as the centre of the barrel, as it bolts down to the cases will never be deadly accurate. That is also one of the jobs of the piston rings to help seal this slight non concentric play. A little bit of play left and right at the piston pin A little bit of front to back from the con rod A little bit from the piston as it fits in the rings All this equals some play.

A couple of things: The flywheel threads should be the opposite of the flywheel spinning direction. The taper on the crank shaft and the taper on the flywheel mating is what keeps them turning together. The flywheel nut is there to facilitate that tight taper relationship. Never put grease or anything else on the flywheel taper or crank shaft external taper. As for the torque settings this is easy to find by finding the size of the crank shaft size and looking up a torque spec for that size bolt. The bike manufacturers do not determine torque setting on bolts but rather there are international standards that every good engineering department uses. So measure the crank at the threads, it it is 18mm then look up the torque spec for a 18mm bolt. DO NOT USE LOCTITE on the threads as torque specs are for dry fits.

Dan All of the above you said not withstanding. One other thing I found was that the Fat Bar clamps inside diameter does not fit the outside diameter of the fat bars. Basically the bar clamps are only clamping on a small circumference of the bars causing it to jerk or wiggle when dropping off something other than a blade of grass.? It is easy to check by either using your wife's lipstick (or yours) coating the inside of the bar clamps tighten down and then loosen and remove looking for the lipstick witness marks on the bars to how much it is actually contacting the bar circumference. With a Beta 4T I owned it was not much holding the bars on and it would clunk quite a bit until I matched the bar clamps circumference to the bar circumference. A long shot I know but it was reality on that particular bike. On a side note: On any bike that has bar clamps with a small dot on them (i.e. Montesa) it is imperative that one matches up the dots on bar clamps and triple tree stanchions and then tightens down the side with the dots first. Once that is done tighten the non dot side to preference. WHY? Because the bar clamps with dots on them are not even and if you turn it upside down you will notice that one leg is taller than the other. They want one side tightened down mating to the surface of the triple clamps and the other side arcing down across the bars. Non dotted bar clamps are meant to bridge across bending evenly over the bars as one tightens them down side by side.

Anything that is subjective can not be a rule! Period. If rules are open to subjectivity then there will be many interpretations of a given rule.

Two two stroke carb does not have an emulsion tube. Emulsion tubes are for four strokes.

Françoise Claudez

Hey Mark If you do not like the first video posted then how about this one then?

I was just about to say the same thing. He is quite a rider.

Is this Bou's twin?

Seems Barry is a stand up block....... Welcome to the club.............. Us sold farts will help when ever we can if we understand the question, problem. Buckfast.......... stick that up yer bum. Send me a bottle of Irn-Bru............ LOL Cheers

Yes, pop down to CVS (A Chemist in the USA) and get some Vagisal. Could be a yeast infection. At least your exhaust port is okay? Do not let the piston get close to the exhaust port until you have blown out out the exhaust port. Lets us know how you make out (no pun intended).

Barry You wrote; "Hi there bike been running well but left petrol tap on and fouled the plug so cleaned plug and checked piston crown and it has a layer of dirty oil . piston has no lateral play eny ideas" What is there in your post that suggest or hints to you took the exhaust off to reseal it? I was not the only one that was confused by your post. You stated: I left the petrol on. It fouled the plug, Cleaned the plug, checked the piston crown it has a layer of dirty oil on it. No side play on the piston. These are all statements. We are well aware that carbon deposits form on the piston crown so what was the question, what was it you wanted ideas on? What did you expect to find on top of the piston crown, custard? Please educate us on how you could possible determine there was no lateral side play on the piston by checking through the exhaust port? Was your post a question or a statement of dirty oil on the piston crown? We dont read minds........ Glasweigians do other things with there head like given Glesga kisses Like This Quote MultiQuote

This is equivalent to: I rode my bike on Sunday parked it in the garage and I noticed Monday it had dirt on the tyres! The bigger questions why you pulled the head off just because you let the fuel tap on?

Sounds like Cope's HARD drive has a virus..... Ask a doctor for a prescription for these.....

HAM Maybe some DHMO got into Copes machine, we should have it tested ASAP

From the back... The handling must be BAD......