rineholio

The "more oil in the fuel affects your jetting" argument has been rehashed for years. So long ago I can't remember, some dirtbike magazine loaded up a bunch of 250 mx bikes with 20:1, 32:1, 40:1... Bottom line: All bikes ran fine without a jetting change. They dyno'd with the most power on richer oil settings. Who knows? Maybe it was because the extra oil created a leaner fuel mixture, or maybe it lubricated better and sealed rings. I don't know. Neither did they. Neither do we. It wasn't enough HP to matter anyhow. Think statistics with this. Is the difference between 32:1 and 80:1 enough to significantly affect the air-fuel ratio enough to require different jetting? Carburator jetting affects your burn/exhaust temperature. Rich jetting runs colder because their is more fuel than the available air can burn. Lean jetting runs hotter. There is no excess fuel to absorb heat. Oil "vaporizes" at certain temperatures. 2stroke oil is formulated to "vaporize" in the temperature range a two-stroke exhaust should be operating. In the ideal world, a bike should be jetted so that (because of its operating temperature) nearly all the oil that ends up in the exploding mixture is vaporized and run out the pipe. The oil touching the piston sides, rings, wall... will stay liquid and lubricate. Assuming mechanicals are in good shape, a properly jetted bike won't foul many plugs. There is no way to avoid running cold in trials though. Extensive idling is required. Hence the balance and full throttle to heat the exhaust and clear the plug. Mixture ratio is determined by what the engineers who designed the engine say it should be. I defer to them. I believe all the above is on the Eric Gorr website. I'm just a mouthpiece. It's worked for me over the years. My two cents: 1. Use any quality motorcycle 2-stroke oil and mix it like owner's manual specifies. I mix a hair richer to account for those special times when I use the old "looks about right" method. 2. If you mix in that range and your bike is fouling plugs, a little trouble shooting is necessary. Right plug in good shape? Clean fuel supply? Compression OK? REEDS? I don't know about trials bikes, but when reeds start going on my CR500 it really messes up the jetting. Last thing you'd do is fiddle with the carburator. My 315 has never needed more than a tweak of the low speed mixture screw to make it run great. Last plug ran two seasons and was still in good shape (but I don't get to ride much). The next year should be interesting because I've moved North and will be riding in temperatures from hot to as cold as I feel like. Jeff 70:1 or so, Montesa recommended spark plug, stock jetting because bike runs great and plugs last a long time. P.S. What was this thread about, anyhow?

This is how I checked for the correct riser, and it is cheap. 1. Buy a piece of hardwood. 10mm is about .4 inches. 2. Remove stock risers. 3. Drill a hole just big enough for your stud or bolt. My Montesa has a stud. I replaced it with a longer bolt to make up for the thickness of the wood. 4. Push the bolt through the hole in the wood to center the riser, screw it into the riser base, and trace around it or use spray paint so the pattern is outlined on the wood. Carb cleaner will easily remove the paint from the metal afterwards. 5. Cut out the piece, use a longer bolt, and reinstall everything. Test your new setup which is now close to 10mm taller, reinstall bars, and check the fit. 6. I used a 1/2 inch thick piece and laminated another 1/8 inch piece onto it to achieve my preference. That's just short of 16mm. I found that the wood had outstanding compression strength and actually primed and finished it with Rustoleum metallic. You can coat it with clear afterwards to make it shinier of up want. Yes, they're still being used. This cost me $3.00 but I had the paint lying around. If you had to buy paint just for this, I'd use the wood to find the correct spacer thickness, and buy risers. Now you'll really think I'm nuts. I turned my risers backwards, which on a Montesa moves them away from the rider. This put my bars about .75 bar width behind the centerline of the fork tubes. I experimented until I got the bars set at the angle I liked, and now it's a perfect fit. I tightened the riser clamps just like you should, the front first (which is now the back), and then the other side. No slippage, and I believe it's extremely unlikely that the bolts will shear. There is only a 1/16' gap where the "rear" of the clamps are tightened. It is now super easy to shift my weight, and requires less energy to ride. What can I say? I love to tinker. If nothing else, you'll only have spent a few bucks more to find the correct height and offset that's best for you. Jeff

If he thinks Canadians don't have freedoms he needs to read this. My brother-in-law's wife is a Canook. We're very good friends and have some really intense discussions regarding gun control, women in combat, crime and punishment, Canadian and American politics, and what is the best beer. We always agree on Crown Royal so we practice freedom of speech while drinking that. There are no holds barred, but we're never mad at each other afterwards and instead of pouting just reload our Crown and Cokes. If either of us ran this site it would be like ultimate fighting with no rules whatsoever. She's also NOW pro-dirtbike, can ride a YZ 250, about 5'10", runs marathons, flies 757s for UPS, grew up in the macho man pilot world, and thinks sexual harrassment is what men with small sex parts do to compensate. Nobody in the aviation world will ever have to worry about a lawsuit from her. She might tell the guy to kiss her ass but her fist choice would be to beat the crap out of him or die trying. She was sort of against the dirtbike thing until she met her future husband, my brother-in-law. Because she did exchange opposing opinions with him, and did a little research into land use herself, she switched teams. That's what freedom of speech is all about-exchanging ideas and opinions. I'm out of this one before I say anything else that might be stupid or swerve too far off topic. As Ringo knows, I occasionally miss the main point. Jeff Stay out of the kitchen if you can't stand the heat.

Ringo, I love what you just wrote. In Cox vs. the United States, during the Vietnam war, a guy named Mr. Cox (of course) wore a shirt that said FT draft. People were outraged and he was arrested... The Supreme Court ultimately wrote that he had done no wrong because one "could avert their eyes" if they saw speech that was offensive. Freedom of speech is limited in the U.S. (theoretically, unless you run a private forum, country club, or are filthy rich or poweful...) only when it can cause danger to others (yelling "Fire!" in a crowded theatre,) which I believe was written into that opinion. Slander and llibel are also restricted, but as already said it's hard to prove any damages, and public figures are generally fair game to say/write anything you want to about them. Ever seen a political debate? Write what you want (pun intended,) read what you want, and if you don't like someone else's B.S., ignore it, avert your eyes, or switch to a different topic. You'll sure as hell never find me reading anti-dirtbike/anti-gun/anti-death penalty stuff, unless it's something to do with keeping your friends close and your enemies closer, or I need adrenaline to restart my heart after one of the Colonel's drinks. I hate censorship, and I'm not in favor of "taking your ball and going home." If I read something that makes me so angry I throw the monitor out the window, I should have had a beer instead of letting some bozo get to me. P.S. I've been off the forum for most of the past year, and haven't read the inflammatory posts. This is just my opinion on freedom of speech, and I think I backed it up. I'm glad I can tell the president that I think he's (choose any derogatory/inflammatory words) and not be dragged through the streets, tortured, and beheaded. If I ever want to be censored, I'll move to the Middle East, China, Singapore... P.P.S. I don't like to read Playboy, but I don't avert my eyes either. A picture says a thousand words or something like that.

It sure wasn't Johnny Ringo or there'd have just been a big splat when the stuntman went over the wall!

By the way, those photos were taking at the Nationals on the El Trial weekend at Reed Valley. With no open riding, we had to find some other things to occupy ourselves with. Geoff always rides well, but he really rode well that weekend. I think it was a good tough trials for the competitors.

I apologize for hijacking and messing up this thread. I had good intentions, but I was grilling carne asada, photoshop was kicking my a***, and then my wife came home and demanded attention. The Montys do ride, actually, some of them quite well. I just never made it to the riding photos. I'll try to post a couple of good ones once I go in and resize the photos. Several guys own those motorized bar stools. They're pretty fun to go putting around on visiting your friends. You just have to be careful where you park. Every now and then, someone rides off on them. I built the bar one weekend and it made me famous amongst the Montys. It has a big Montesa sticker on the front, and is now on balloon tires so I can just roll it out and set it up. For the record, I want to say that the Montys do get carried away with setup and fun, but we are also very serious about trials. Sorry again for being a bozo on this thread. I'll try to make it up later.

Sorry about the messed up giant photo, but it might happen again on this one. Montys and friends also bring their own seats.

Whoops. The big photo before this one gave me an error message. I didn't think it would post. Sorry, but email Ringo if you're mad.

Another cool thing about TFM is that females congregate at our camp after dark.

One of the first things that makes TFM "The cure for the common trials club" (Charlie coined that) is that besides being outstanding riders, we are chick magnets after the sun sets.

Everthing Ringo said is true. Plus since there is so much mystique surrounding the Montys, I thought I would provide a little insight into our special and seldom photographed team. Of course, more Monty activity could be observed if the rest of you consumed a couple of beers the night before the race and didn't go to bed at 8p.m. for a 10a.m. rider's meeting. This photo is from left to right, Bob and Charlie. Ringo is behind. Charlie and Bob are the founding fathers, so to speak, and I'm not sure when Ringo's unique abilities were added to team. I support Ringo no matter what he does because his personality is essential to any well-rounded team. Bob is out of uniform, which is unusual.

Write this down-What Ringo said is the absolute unvanquished truth! I've seen his box of broken pedals!

I've heard people say that, but I've been doing it for 30 years now with no problems. I have noticed that blasted ones don't last as long as a new plug, but my jetting is pretty spot on and I toss them when they start to look worn. Why is sandblasting bad? I agree it's not as good as a new plug, but as long as you clean it off before you put it back in, what's the problem?

I've heard people say that, but I've been doing it for 30 years now with no problems. I have noticed that blasted ones don't last as long as a new plug, but my jetting is pretty spot on and I toss them when they start to look worn. Why is sandblasting bad? I agree it's not as good as a new plug, but as long as you clean it off before you put it back in, what's the problem?

I have an 04 and this is what I've been told. The ultimate plug is supposedly the Bosch 4218 (part number). I think that's a 7 heat range. I run 100 octane unleaded, about 60:1, and still have my original BRE6ES. I sand blast it after every couple of outings. What gas are you using. The 04 definitely needs a little better than the average pump fuel when it's pulling hard. Jeff

Misc thoughts on trials growth: I think one of the reasons trials doesn't get bigger is that to truly improve, be involved, and ultimately enjoy the sport, you need to compete, and many aren't into that. If you didn't compete, what would riding a trials bike be like? Almost anyone can ride a standard dirtbike (even a Z50) across average terrain and have fun. For trials, you really need experienced riders to create courses and a path on which to advance your skills, so to speak. Trials is about the riding, more than anything else, IMHO. A new adult rider can ride a CRF 450 down a dirt road at 70 mph, and be thrilled, but they would suffer on the Novice course on any new trials bike. I believe something like this has been intoned already, and as they say, trials is a "thinking man's" sport. I also feel it's a lot of work to put on the average trials event. For my club, typical setup involves going out the weekend before and setting up the route, and marking out the sections. Then we go out the next weekend, and tidy everything up. It's a very small core of the total club that actually does the work, which I think is typical of most club events of any kind. For the average member living in the San Diego, CA area, that's about eight hours of driving, two complete weekends in the desert (wonderful for me) and handling other responsibilities such as work, spouses, kids, or whatever (Keeping up with work alone is hard for me!). When you factor in the amount of effort it takes to keep a group of people connected and interested who live hours apart, it's amazing the average person can even become involved in a trials club, and still have time for other things. On top of that, I've noticed that when you put on an event that gets a large turnout, you start having lines at sections and the event goes on forever. You start reaching the point where the riding time doesn't match the effort, and you don't have enough willing club members with sufficient skill, or sometimes access to enough land to lay out more sections so you can split divisions or something to keep lines down. When it gets like this, it takes away from family and socializing time, which is important, even though I still argue that trials is about the riding! It's hard to increase size of your club and the riders' over-all skill levels in the right proportions so that they can put on a bigger competition that doesn't suck. Blab blab blab-I think marketing and cost plays a part. Businesses market whatever they think will make them the most money. Compared to dirtbikes, I would think streetbikes outsell them by huge amounts. Less and less offroad riding areas are part of the reason, as is the cost of a new dirtbike. The new Montesa 4stk will probably be $7300 American or so. I know guys who are holding off, keeping there old scoots, and waiting to see what all the brands will cost when they are released in 05. They're only considering the cost of one bike. Just think if you had two kids who wanted to ride. By the time you get the crew outfitted, you're looking at 20k just for bikes and gear, even buying the kids cheaper bikes. Yeah, you can go used, but this is just an example. All these things impede growth of the sport. At any rate, my wife is demanding my attention. I think she wants me to lift or "be tall" for her, and besides I need to stop boring people. I hope someone will sort this out for the better. I was also going to write on the topic of "When a sport gets too big it attracts money and gets ruined," but thought better of it. Cheers!

During heavy drinking I heard that the first number of the price would scare Americans because it had hit a new point. I have no valid information.

Post what you think after you ride it. I'm interested in your gear change.

I would definitely try it long before you shorten it. What have you got to lose?

I have to go with Petersdragon. Being hydrated is the key, other than just being fit. If you drink beer in the evening and coffee in the morning, you're probably too dehydrated. Mix in a bunch of water for several days before you ride. If you're not hydrated, your muscles can't function properly.

Hi guys (and gals?) I'm a new member here, and although I can't really say I've been perfect, Santa gave me a raincheck on an 04 Montesa. Should be here in a week or two, and I can't wait!!

Mark brings up a good point. You might be able to jet out the ping by richening it up. By the way, I'm assuming your engine is in good shape and you have the correct plug in it. 1. If it knocks only at full throttle, go up a size on the main jet. If that makes it better and the plug doesn't foul, try two sizes. If that fixes the knock, and the plug still doesn't foul, and your knock is fixed, you may now have a slower responding midrange because it's too rich at half throttle. You could then try dropping the needle a notch to lean your midrange and get your throttle response back, without affecting the wide-open throttle richness. 2. If it only knocks at partial, say half-throttle, try raising the needle a notch. If this fixes it and plugs don't foul, you're set. There are lots of combinations you can try, for example richening the carb, and slightly retarding the timing. You're just going to have to experiment. IMHO, the quality of gas varies from place to place, and I believe octane levels have fallen over the past years, regardless of what it says on the pump, at least here in the People's Republic of California. Several years ago, all of my bikes ran fine on pump gas, but recently they've all become octane sensitive. It's not carbon buildup, because it happened to both bikes, fairly suddenly, and the CR has a new top end. I've already played with jetting, and can't eliminate it without going way too rich. I'm going to play with the timing the next time I head out. If I don't get satisfactory results, I'll start buying race gas, which is plentiful here. Oh yeah, you asked about how performance will be affected. This is my rough observation for the bikes I've owned in the past. Retarding the timing from stock- a little less throttle response down low-the engine revs less quickly, however you can still snap in full throttle and get power. Mine lugged a little better, and was a little smoother down low. A little less top end (for me). Advancing the timing from stock-Better throttle response and midrange power, but I believe I lost some rpm on top. I ran my timing retarded for slippery, muddy conditions, and stock for everything else. I have yet to mess with the timing on my newer bikes.

You have a couple of options. You can probably find a machine shop that specializes in bikes that can cut enough material out of your head to lower the compression ratio enough to allow the use of pump gas. About $40. You need someone who knows how much to cut and how it will affect your bike afterwards before you let them do it. Some bikes run better, but with a trials bike, you might lose lowend snap and response. Timing is probably your best bet. It's easy to change and if you don't like it you can put it back. I wouldn't mess with base gasket or head gasket. It won't reduce your compression enough to help, IMHO, and things might leak later on. Good luck!