ross brown

Agreed. If I was doing it all again, I'd avoid the TTT (great concept but poorly executed) and keep my original mudguard but do the two mods as 'chuckindenver' suggested: a) cut the uderside lip off it so that the mudguard can be more easily share the bending loads without snapping replace the side mounting screws with plastic screws.

I put one of the above mentioned 'unbreakable kits' on my Beta 125. Must say I'm quite disappointed in the fit and finish. This forum has many threads on Beta rear mudguards. check this one out. http://www.trialscentral.com/forums/topic/39454-rear-mudguards-2012/

Nice thread bump Warby. You must have been busy on the 280 as I see that after one entire year the red frame against your garage wall - the one awaiting an engine - hasn't moved at all.

A lot of this has been covered in previous threads. Some thoughts on knee braces: Protect from yaw/sideways twisting - After my 5th knee op, I bought a pair of Asterisk knee braces. The strong side bracing is ideal for stopping yaw at the knee yet allowing full movement front-to-back ie motion of squatting. Protect from a direct blow - Look for a knee cap cover ie. softens a direct blow (such as a rock) or when kneeling on the ground.

As part of a two or three times a decade episode when I feel the need to simplify my life and reduce a procrastinatingly large backlog of tasks, this month I decided to turn my TL250 Rehab project over to someone who could finish it at a quicker pace than myself. There was another factor involved. I’d recently purchased a Beta Evo 125 for my son. Not only is this the first two stoke I can get on with, it has turned out to be a ride-changing tool. Finding that I did not having enough time to ride my Modern (250) and then hearing the 125 speak to me “come ride me, you know light-is-right”, I realised my ambitions to finish the Rehab and then ride the twinshock were quickly sliding backward down a list of must-dos. It was time to turn it over to a new owner. As part of the For Sale process I listed the items and costs of purchase. Bling, replacements parts and paid for man-hours of experts topped out at almost $3 spent for every $1 of the original purchase price. I consider this money well spent. While the TL is no longer resident in the garage, it leaves a permanent legacy of twinshock books, bookmarks, and jpegs. Not to mention an occasional quarter inch deep scrape on the floor (you can’t throw 300lbs of Honda over your shoulder like you can a 125 two-stoke when you need to move it to get the lawnmower out). Hopefully the new owner, Good Guy, access to engineering resources, will continue with this thread and share his successes in photos when he starts to compete on the mighty TL250. Over to you…

Dear Sir Dab “There is no replacement for displacement”. Bollocks. At least that’s what’s I’ve just learned these last three rides. I too am 50+, 90 Kgs, Clubman and (riding) time-starved. I’ve added a Beta 125 to the stable for my son and in the process of getting to know it have been truly surprised; to the point where I wonder why more folk do not have one. I haven’t owned the 125 long enough to comment on riding in really muddy conditions yet. My experience of the pros and cons of 125 vs. 250 ownership are below. Pros of 125s: Full lock turns: 125 wins with its light weight and great steering. Tight lines: 125 wins as it’s size is forgiving eg. I can ride along the top of a log for longer than on the 250. Up waterfalls and crossing streams: 125 wins as it can ‘Foil on Water’ (think Amercia's cup). I can now jump up rocks and float across water as never before. It’s is a magical state not normally found by me on my 250. Where the 250 has extra earth-moving torque it also carries the extra weight and so ploughs through and around rather than over. Short, steep up hills with axle high tree roots at the very top: 125 wins. When wound-up (revved) the 125 gets me to the top of the hill, albeit with less torque in reserve, and the lighter front makes it easier to loft the whole bike across the roots. The 250 would get me to the top with more in hand, but I might dig a hole and spin rather than dig-in and go over the roots. I know, this is a weight distribution thing rather than a torque thing. When it all goes horribly wrong: When I screw up, and need more torque to get out of trouble and it doesn’t happen I can extricate myself or pick an alternate line on-the-fly more easily. Light weight again. Cons of 125s: Logs: Less grunt on demand means I'm having more of an issue with logs. This is a technique Fail of course rather than the 125s fault, but I can no longer open the throttle and the bike rolls up the log. I have to 'think ahead' of the bike more. It forces me to be sharper with the clutch and throttle. Hills. I carry more Energy into the start of a section: To compensate for a reduction in torque I carry more energy, which can be converted into forward or vertical momentum, or let slip away with the clutch. So I'm using more throttle and clutch control. When I screw up, and need more torque to get out of trouble, it doesn’t happen so I again I need to have thought through exactly what I'm going to carry to the top in terms of speed and body positioning. Usability vs. capability When on the phone to my brother and having to describe why the 125 had surprised me so with its appeal, all round fun-factor, I realised it had made me more aggressive in how I approach an obstacle and that the reason may well be that it is being ridden at say, 70% of its capability, whereas I’m riding the 250 at 50%. If I only had one bike would be a 125? Up until month a go I would have said no way. Now, I could easily live with a 125. I hope this helps. Go beg or borrow one for an hour or two. It does make me wonder if a 200 is in fact the perfect Trials Tool.

Just as long as you don't run out of fuel in the forest and your friends need to pre-alert police SAR. PS. I promise not to mention this again.

Figured out a way to sort the tank seat mounting after I saw a photo of a white TLR 200 with a 2-part seat tank combo. So ran outside with my hacksaw. I should have used a grinder to do my cutting I know but grinders scare the sh*t out of me (I can see myself dropping it onto my leg/foot/arm, or the sparks shooting behind me and setting fire to the wife's car). So I figured the tank needs to go ON TOP of the seat. To do this the sides of the mounting tab that extended from underneath the tank had to be cut off. Having down that, the seat now lies flat along the frame rails for its full length making for a good and strong connection. Visually, from the side the seat is now horizontal. I need to flatten out and tidy up the edges of the flange but now it sits right. Seen from the side the seat angle is much better. But that turn down in the shape of the tank still looks wrong. 60 tooth sprocket from TYTrails looks huge. Rear mudguard flap, from swingarm to start of mudguard needs to go back on and that bloody clutch cable needs a clamp to keep it out of the way of the front wheel.

I liked the look of the black Top Trial Team mudguard kit. Well what a disappointing experience fitting a TTT flexible mudguard turned out to be. While the plastic is flexible enough, the item arrived without any installation instructions. But that’s OK as there is a low-res two page document available on the web sites of several of the Top Trial Team UK resellers. All goes well until Step 8. “Cut out the corresponding template from the suppled sheet”. This is the template you use to cut into your original guard in order to shape the Beta OEM guard ahead of the Top Trial Team part. But where's the template? It seems to me that the document on the web should have THREE pages. Oh well, with some care and attention I cut the old mudguard (a brave move when it is perfectly good to start with) using a hacksaw and a Stanley knife. This cut creates the “V” where the front and rear guards meet. The fit as seen from above is good. Just likes the photos on ebay. However, when you screw the Beta ‘front half’ of the guard back into place you are effectively pinching in the sides, so physics dictates that the centre will rise slightly as the sides get pushed in. When you screw the TTT ‘rear half’ of the guard into place you are effectively pulling down the sides, so that the screw holes line up and the centre gets lower. This results in the Beta Guard sitting higher than the new Top Trial guard with a very sharp looking "V". Doesn't look bad in the photo but in real life I think "Damn, wish I'd just stayed with the old guard". I I’ve had a vasectomy so the placement of this sharp looking 'V' it doesn’t worry me unduly. But its not the sort of finishing detail that I expect to see and it lets the rest of the bike down. I wish whomever brought this product to market had spent a little more care in the design and execution. A couple of extra mms here and there and the fit quality would have been spot on. Also I read somewhere in the forum that you can re-use the rear part of the OEM mudguard that you cut off. As I see it, this is rubbish as the TTT new metal support - nicely made and it does fit beautifully on top of the air box under the mudguard - adds height to the under guard area so that there is no way the OEM mudguard can stretch to fit over it while still using the original mounting holes. This is just one man's experience of course and while the panel-gap is not Lexus quality I had hoped for better. The solution: is to drill a new hole in the Beta guard and anchor the Southern most part of the guard through the rear air filter mount with a 25mm screw.

Sorry, it's been as while. Work, a new house, kids etc have all got in the way of riding, let alone restoring the TL. Anyway the Fat Girl is back from the workshop where she has been hibernating. For every two steps forward there has been one step backward, plus a stubbed toe. Rear frame loop at the mudguard has been cut off. I was going to squeeze the now open-ended frame tubes together to make them water tight, but my tame metal worker made two beautiful press-fit polished caps that plug the frame tubes. Who am I to deny him his art. Earn 1 Bonus point. Removing the loop in the mudguard frame allows the mudguard to be positioned higher with a more modern look to it. Weight saving is in tens of grams. Earn 0.5 bonus point. Seat and new mudguard working better together. Earn 1 Bonus point. But tank seat junction is still not right even after adding 25mm glass fibre insert into RS250 seat base. Subtract 2 points. Previous rear mudguard had gone brittle in workshop and snapped. Subtract 1 bonus point. Sourced new black mudguard same week. Earn 1 bonus point. Realise mudguard is of same cheap plastic as previous disaster and with a guaranteed half-life of three trials. See that Shedworks sell TLR mudguards that are flexible but twice the cost. Do my sums and see that I have now spent the same amount, only I don't have a mudguard that I am happy with. Subtract 1 bonus point. Tank seat junction is not looking as good as I hoped for. Seat is on top of the tank mount but now 30mm lower as the original cross frame seat support has been cut off. Back to the drawing board. ​New front mudguard bracket was a cock-up. I tried adapting a Gas gas bracket but would have had to weld on additional aluminium in order to match up the holes. Unlike a TLR the mudguard bracket mounting holes are some way below the fork seals. Subtract 1 bonus point. Re-install Sammy Miller mudguard bracket for a Tl125. Adjust rear loop of this bracket with hammer to fit the 250 so that curve of mudguard is parallel to wheel. Earn 1 bonus Took an air powered polishing tool to the tank to remove paint and scratches and then attached a compressed air line - plus a heat torch to the tank surface to soften the alu - to try and get the testicle-sized dents out of the top rear of the tank. The dents are still there. Subtract 1 bonus point. Only now the tank also has a leak. Not a failed Honda weld, but a failed previous repair. Leak is of course difficult to get to as it is up under the rear mounting bracket. So that might have to be cut off the underside of the tank and then reattached. Subtract 2 bonus points. Top left rear shock bolt was found to be 8mm. All other shock bolts 6mm. Top left was also only 10mm long. When it should have been 20mm at least. Found that Previous Owner, (PO) or FPO as I prefer to think of him as, had tried to drill it out and in doing so had snapped off a drill bit inside the mount. Subtract 1 bonus point. So had to use a concrete masonary drill, a pick and a hammer to fracture what remained of the drill bit so that it could be removed before I could re-tap the mount with new thread. Earn 1 bonus point. Did some work on the tank: paint and petrol-tightness now removed! Bring bike home on trailer. Notice oil seal around gear lever has disintegrated. Subtract 1 bonus point. Look for replacement set of oil seals purchased months ago. Discover that during house move I now don't know where they are. Subtract 1 bonus point. Receive email from wife at 4pm saying she is coming home from business trip one day earlier than expected. Realise that time spent on TL today means all other jobs I had promised to get done before her return will now have to be done tomorrow. Workload now means no riding tomorrow. Subtract 1 bonus point.

Strip naked, pick It up and step onto bathroom scales. Put it down and stand on scales second time. Subtract your weight and ta dah.. Kids, don't try this at home with your 4RT.

Just the sort of intel I was hoping to hear. Many thanks.

Damn, there's the new mudguard off Santa's wish list. Looks like the new lighter/slimmer/sexier 260 mudguard will not bolt directly onto older 4RTs as the tank shape is different at the head of the guard. All the mourning holes look to be the same tho' as the frame appears unchanged. '14 vs '07 mudguard shapes

A good friend offered me a Mitani header-pipe for my '07 4RT, but in the end I stuck with the Standard pipe, and dumbed down the performance even more with a Jitsie 'DB Killer. Look closely at the end of the pipe and you can see it. Bike is doing 14,000 rpm in this photo and no one cares. "DB Killer" interrupts exhaust gas flow with two mesh screens about 15mm apart. Comes annodised red when new but soon discolours to a gold hue with heat.

Here we have a pic of Hebo fat bar adapters on a 4RT. Just bolted straight on. upside: Love my Renthal fat bars for the feel: softer as 'mcman56' said which makes them less tiring, less prone to bending. Also, shortened the bars by 25mm a side to give me that extra clearance between the trees. downside: Looks like it could be a dentist's dream come true as there is no bar pad that will fit.

Any other 4RT 260 owners care to share their views. I'd love to hear from someone who has just upgraded. I think I speak for a few folk when Is say that while we're comfortable with our 4RTs, we are just looking for a valid reason to start to the Mrs that 'its time for a new bike'. Or at least consider whether the 260 feels different enough in its ride to demand to be put on a wish list. Penny for your thoughts. We had an '05, '07 and an '09 Repsol out playing today and a few 2T folk got to try them. Different maps, set ups but the same gearing on the bikes. Jumping from my '07 to an '09 Repsol, the front end of my '07 felt much heavier than the '09. It is not of course, but the change in steering head angle was noticeable. Ross

Ahh come on. Stop teasing us. How does the bike feel, even if you've just had time to go up and down your driveway? Does it REALLY feel lighter? If the dog on the driveway doesn't move can you bunny-hop over it with the new lighter feeling bike, or does the dog look like an Intercity ran over it. Also can you ID any of the other 70 changes of the 260 over the old model, or do you think they are just internal/manufacturing efficiencies? Some photos please. Real shots of your bike. Unswept driveways, beer and wine bottles discarded on the ground, rubbish bins not put out, dogs chasing cats... all will be forgiven for a few photos of a new 4RT in a real customer's hands.

http://www.jbanyeres.com/en/15-montesa 315R guards (red) fit. Or you go for a black one like the new 2013 4RT260s. Black Ossa 280 guards fit.

See 'linkage', 'bushes', 'replacement', or regular greasing of joints. Seriously, in the same way that if you are driving for any distance and get uncomfortable the first thing you do is make a small adjustment to your car seat, so too here. Consider moving your handlebars forward as the angle of the bars affects the leverage out at the elbow. To avoid tennis elbow, my Dr says you want both forearm and upper arm to the share in any heavy workload. Try small adjustment in bars, if only while you are practicing.

Yes, bushes are working. Availability is an issue. Source of supply - a 4RT rider himself - appears to be offline, or non-trials workload is too busy. But yes, I'd happily buy bushes again.

I know it's an old thread but I like this idea. And I've just added some new Apico levers to my bike. The bend is good and they feel shorter even if they aren't. Also, have you noticed: a) MTB bars are getting narrower in width not wider (easier to fit between the trees) and pedals for serious dirt biking and downhill are 100mm+ front to back. That's quite a bit more than say S3 pegs. I wonder if bigger pegs would give us more options to move our weight forward and backward.

Because they are robust beats, the things to look for are the 'usual' items. That is to say the wear and tear that you would expect from a 7 year old bike: rattles, does it burn oil, is it straight (pegs, frame, rims etc), wheel bearings and suspension linkages. Most upgrades appear to have been performance related (Search differences between '7, '08, '10) rather than recall reliability related. There has been an internal engine mod for kickstart reliability, so check that the lever goes through its travel and stops smoothly. Suggest you pour yourself a pint and dedicate an hour or so to use the Search function within this forum as there's lots of info already here. Search 'tips' and 'bling' as chances are if you spend a few $s on replacement bling such as protection (cases), sprockets and tyres (usual stuff), an upgrade to fat bars, better footpegs, then your '05 /06 will feel close to a later model with similar bling/mods.

This is not a box trailer I know, but it is a bog standard small 4' wide, 6' long garden trailer. Rather than turn the front wheels, the rear tyre extends (and is held tight) by the tailgate.

More Pictures! And do tell all.

Largest swingarm bushes I've ever seen. Joel, when you come to fitting your new tank, can you share a few photos of the installation.