daved444

Bo - I have rock shocks on my pre 65 bike that seem to work fine but again, have heard plenty of stories about failure. I have used betors previously but didn't think much of them. I have a pair of shocks on my Fantic that Mick Andrews was selling - look like re-valved betor's and work really well. Cant comment on the Falcons but I think they are probably the best if you can get them working for you so possibly worth the money.

Hi - Alan Whitton did my engine for me to 230cc - hes the man to speak to on this - it certainly worked beter on the standard stroke at 230 cc as it still revved well unlike the 250cc conversions that I tried when deciding which way to go.

Thanks for the response Simon. As you have stated, there is no obvious reason why they have broken down which is all the more concerning as they work fine one minute then fail for no apparent reason so it provides an element of uncertainty and reliability was the reason for the electronic ignition in the first place. The replacement has worked fine during the last 3 trials since you supplied the replacement and I know that Alan Nicklin has been running his without trouble for a number of years so I may have been unlucky - time will tell

My Sprite is just about finished now, hope you like it

Hope this helps you, this is the mod we have done on a Fantic that we are just doing now - more photos on http://classicrider444.blogspot.com/ Dave

Unless I am mistaken it appears to be a slightly modified Sprite frame

Thanks guys - I have spoken to Alan and the ignition is available but it requires a new flywheel to be made and some machining - I think he has been waiting for a while to get things going on the flywheel front. I think I might go with the Rex Caunt one for now, as for cost I am not too concerned (when you enter a trial for 18 quid then travel 90 mins to the trial and dont get out of the carpark at the start of the trial) then the price of an ignition system to sort out reliability is a small price to pay! OTF - did Alan supply your PVL?

Thanks for the link - I have spoken to Clive at Norton Villiers a few times but I haven't heard too much from anyone using one (except Clive of course) I could do with anyone's thoughts on PVL in a Villiers engine or how the Rex Caunt system stands up perhaps??

Having today missed the Classic Experts trial due to a failed electronic ignition (the 2nd one from Simon Bateman that has broken down) I now need to find a good replacement that performs and is reliable. Can anyone give advise on which way to go please????? Thanks

I have to agree with you Totalshell, the Red Rose, Yorks and BMCA trials have got it just about right - the trials take under 10 marks from the good riders at the top of the list and dont provide a challenge that will put off the guys at the other end. I dont see these trials having diminishing entries, quite the contrary they attract riders like myself at 40 with dodgy knees that cant afford to get injured on sundays riding more difficult modern trials trying to keep up with the young riders. (Thanks for the 'new younger rider compliment though!!). In respect of Woody's comment, there are very few bikes out there that are unmodified to some degree with parts that were not available in the period. Some meet the rules and others should be ridden in the Specials class accordingly - the thing is that the rules fail to be consistent and a bike that meets the regs at one trial is not allowed at another - this is where the problem lies for me, especially on the Cub. This is why the Sprite was built to ride with limited mods in any trials and also the idea to build a really trick James to actually use in twinshock events and the odd clubmans class in modern trials. I see that the rules for the ACU sanctioned Miller championship are not even the same as for the ACU classic championship (non british carbs being allowed due to the severity of the sections in the ACU???) Surely the right thing to do is make the sections meet the capability of the bikes within the rules, not the opposite. At the end of the day I think we all want to have and ride the best bike available to us, for some this is one upmanship, others it means engineering excellence, others it means getting away with as much as you can and others to maximise their capability as a rider - whatever the reason you still have to ride the sections and keep your feet up and as I have said before, the bike wouldn't massively change the final result at most club events if everyone switched bikes as it still needs riding and there is no real substitute for the class of the best riders

Bo - I agree - I have actually been considering having it clear laquered rather than painting it - dont much care for the James red colour any way!!

You may have seen at the Malvern show a really fantastic Mick Andrews replica James frame on Alan Whitton's stand. I have been thinking of building a really trick James, possibly inspired by the one in the Classic Dirt Bike mag and thought that this frame would be the right place to start. Having spoken to Alan it appears that ther are currently only 2 of these in existance at the moment, Mick's own one and the one that Alan is building for himself. They are made from 17guage T45 and there have been a few mods including slight adjustments for the steering geometry as required my Mick. All in all this has to be one of the best James frames around with superbly finished braising and neat touches all over it - see the drop outs - oh and it interestingly weighs about 5 lbs less than the old James frames that AW used to sell. They will retail at about 1350 quid. Anyway, I have bitten the bullet and placed my order but unfortunately will only be produced in batches of 3 so if anyone is considering building a James and want the best frame out there can you give Alan a call so he can get 3 orders in and make the next batch so I can start my dream bike. Incase you havent managed to see one yet, here are a few pictures

I would imagine that if you contact someone like Dave Renham he will be able to tell you the exact colour pantone for the Bultaco and your local powder coater should then be able to mach against that reference number

I thought you would like to see the Sprite project that we have just about finished. The 'before' pictures of the bike are not that clear but you get the idea of the state of it. The project to date has taken only 6 weeks so big thanks to my Dad - Pete Dawson who has put a tremendous amount of time and effort in turing it around for me. He can be contacted on 01527 870365 if you have a project that you want to commision him to do... Full details of the restoration can be found on http://classicrider444.blogspot.com

Do you think that's the same red shirt that Roy still rides in?????

Thanks for the info Mick. To be honest I think you are right - I had a ride on Mick Parkes' saracen at the weekend and the engine was beautiful - he runs it with a motoplat ignition and wins BMCA trials most weekends. If I can get the engine running something like that I will be well chuffed. Dave

I have spoken to Alan but have also spoken to a number of other people who appear to have very well sorted bikes and everyone claimes that theirs are the best. Of course Alan promotes the PVL and quite rightly so for the cub as its the best thing out there but there are not many Villiers PVL's out there yet and Mick Andrews recommendation is highly regarded but there are a number of opinions and various prices for ignition systems. The guys winning in the midlands appear be on Simon Bateman ignitions and claim to have no problems but I hear from other quarters that they auto retard and possibly dont rev out as well as some of the others. The Rex Caunt ignitions are similar to PVL I understand but I dont know many people using them. Regaring the Carb - I am looking fo fairly soft consistent delivery (read useable in mud and low grip) so any info on settings for the Amal concentric Mk1 are welcome. Dave

I know this might open up a complete bag of worms but here goes..... The Sprite I am doing at the moment has a Villiers 32a engine with, I understand, a Parkinson Head and was once a 360cc. It has since been re-sleeved and is now back to standard bore as a 250 so other than the oversized cylinder head it appears to be a standard ally barrel. The question is; Which electronic ignition is the right way to go for trials? I have heard that numerous James, Greeves, Sprites, Francis Barnets, Saracens etc etc are running well on either Simon Bateman, Rax Caunt or PVL ignitions - can anyone point me in the right direction and advise the different characteristics that make one better than the other? 2nd Question - Which carb and what base settings should I go for. Any advise is welcomed Dave

Perhaps that just proves the point that a good rider will do well on any bike, though it sound as though that bike wasn't far off a standard trim road bike..... maybe that wouldn't get a result in a national level trial, no matter who was riding it??? Saying that, I have been to some trials and seen guys out on very original looking rigid bikes riding the hard route and low and behold, when the results come out there are a whole host of riders on 'enhanced' classic bikes on a lot more marks.

In response to the various questions and comments; The whole front end was done by Alan Whitton (Tel No 01246 419805) i know that there are a number of people who do forks, yolks and other bits out there but I think Alan's stuff is by far the best quality engineering. On the question of fork gaiters, I generally ride either BMCA or Red Rose but had planned to do some Yorks events so it's worth knowing. It can get quite confusing though, as the North of England generally allow Del Orto carbs on cubs but BMCA do not, Yorks want to see gaiters but Red rose and BMCA seem ok with no gaiters. I wish that they would all agree one set of rules. I suppose that if you just make it Scottich compliant then it will generally be OK everywhere. I am not a pot hunter though and just want to ride challenging trials and have a bit of fun on a Sunday so the specials or non championship class is no real problem. Honestly though, gaiters should be a small worry for most organisers when you look at some of the mcdonald cubs or 'special' arials that you see around. We need to have a reality check though and realise that if the top 10% of the entry changed bikes on any given sunday there would be little difference in the results so the bike might not make that much of a difference anyway. I reckon Thorpey would still win on a standard 200cc cub - wouldn't he???? Dave

I noticed a few comments relating to Big John no longer posting photos on the forum. As a new member I must admit I value any photos that members post so it would be a shame to lose out when actually it is a pretty straightforward process. This might help...... Dave Go to www.photobucket.com this is a totally free site and allows you to upload your images to your own personal album. Once you've registered, hit the browse option which you'll then direct to your chosen photo folder on your PC. Click on your photo and hit submit (give it 5 secs) Hey presto, the picture is now in your new album. To post the pic onto the forums you have to go to those three links at the bottom of each photo in your album, click on the link at the bottom to highlight, then right click and copy the link.... Now, right you message out on your forum of choice, when your ready for your pic to be posted, click the "Img" tab (look above the message box) this will make the "img" text appear in the message box, then right click and paste your link... Note, I always check the preview first to see if the picture turned out OK before submitting....

I understand that the guy that has taken over intends to carry on with the same stuff that Martyn did but he is more interested in road than trials cubs. I am sure that between him and Alan Whitton, everything will still be available. Here are some pictures of the front end of my cub. AW yolks and hubs along with Norton Roadholders with Betor internals - all done by AW> Dave

Yes, very light and certainly more competitive than the rider!!!! The hubs are aluminium cub pattern hubs from AW rece engineering. Dave

Hi, I have just joined the forum and am reading the classic forum with interest. I cant really believe that there are so many perfectly restored bikes out there. I guess like me, you all got fed up with riding modern trials and losing money each year to keep up with the latest bikes when you can spend money on a good classic and even if it only gets ridden in anger once a month you can relax in the knowledge that it's value will not diminish, in fact may actually prove to be an investment. Here is a Cub that was finished quite recently with the help of some great work from Alan Whitton. (actually, since this picture was taken I have also added a McDonald - Armac rear subframe and swinging arm). All that is now left is to get it running well on a Villiers or Amal carb to make it comply with the rules in most classic trials - even Scotland in 08 perhaps?? If anyone can put me in touch with the right person for modifying Villers of Amal carbs I would appreciate it. We are also just embarking on a Sprite restoration too so will post some pictures of that one too when it's finished. If anyone is interested, I am documenting the job in pictures and words on my Blog site - http://classicrider444.blogspot.com/