old trials fanatic

Just asking as the bike would be "illegal" in our centre and I think, stand to be corrected of course, that most of the National Classic Championships are the same. Your centre is probably different but worth checking that's all I meant Edit : Just reread the Normandale regs and all it says is drum brake and hubs silhouette so depending on your interpretation of silhouette sounds like as Woody says should be ok. Still think it would be frowned on in our centre but as you are in Wiltshire you know the local clubs better than me so enjoy the fruits of your labours you have made a nice job of it. Good luck

Are TLS brakes legal in your centre then ?

The country has been suffering with the wettest winter since records began but the Peak Classic Trial Club wouldn’t be thwarted by the recent deluge and turned up at Dudwood Farm, Elton nr Matlock, Derbyshire determined to run Round 2 of their Club Championship. We were unable to use the normal stream sections not because of the level of water in the stream but because the surrounding fields were very waterlogged and to use them would have resulted in damage to them that the landowner was unwilling to countenance. Never mind a course consisting of 4 laps of 10 sections was accommodated in the woods and the event went ahead as if the torrential downpours of late had never happened. On the Expert Twinshock route young Robert Carson rode his borrowed Honda 250 TLR to victory with a loss of just 2 marks from Ian Margetts, Fantic, in second place on 6 and Mark Hallows on his Majesty that he has owned from new taking third on 8 marks lost. Will Robert be talking his dad into buying the Honda ? He really did look at home on it ! watch this space. Roberts dad Peter had a good day on the Classic Expert British bike route, which was better supported than of late which is very heartening, taking a win on his Bantam and keeping a clean sheet along the way. Robert Spencer riding his mighty Ariel followed in second on 14 marks which was a fantastic result as the Ariel is a real Goliath by comparison to the Bantam. Barry Burton whose land we were using was unlucky to come third on 21 marks due to missing a section completely but still a commendable performance on his James. David Pattison had one of his usual immaculate performances on his equally immaculate Bultaco to win the Classic Expert Twinshock class losing just 8 marks along the way. A superb effort David. In second place was last years Championship class winner Anthony Sprinks also Bultaco mounted on 18 and with Peter Kearsley, Honda, keeping him honest on 24 taking third that tied up the top three on that route. Intermediate British Bike was an interesting battle between the youngest competitor Harry Lyons on his Bantam and the oldest bike a pre World War 2 Japette piloted by Werner Eckel. The Bantam came out the winner giving Harry Lyons, riding up to the Intermediate route this year, the result on 20 marks but it wasn’t an easy win because the girder forked rigid framed Japette with the very experienced Werner aboard snapped at the Bantams heals all the way and only lost the win by 6 marks finishing on 26. That was some ride Werner and theres life in the old girl yet. The Intermediate Twinshock route saw a great ride by Mark Kearsley on his Yamaha leaving everybody in his wake riding to a brilliant win on 9 but good rides were also had by Steve Fletcher, Yamaha, in second on 14 marks and John Morley on his Honda taking third on 16. Evergreen Tony Shaw was unlucky not to keep a clean sheet on his Bultaco riding the Classic Intermediate route and won just having the single dab. Andrew Rivington secured second on his Yamaha for a loss of only 6 and nice to see Peter Austin on his Bultaco take third with a score of 16 which was very commendable in the tricky conditions. This left just the Clubman classes to be decided and on the Clubman British Bike route the paring of Arthur Tomkinson and his totally original Greeves Scottish took the nod on 2 marks leaving Steve Turner, Tiger Cub, to take second on the tie break and Peter Cotterill on his Bantam full of smiles took third place on 7. Good battle guys. The final placings in the Clubman Twinshock class were sewn up by Martin Falconer, Bultaco, taking top spot on 5 and Mike Watson, Fantic, taking second on 9 leaving Tony Fray, Yamaha, in third place on 11 marks another great battle in testing conditions. After the event everybody descended on the Miners Standard pub for the presentation of the awards for 2013 which concluded last seasons competition which means the focus now moves to Stathams Farm and Round 3 of the 2014 Championship on March 30th. See you there. Expert Twinshock 1st Robert Carson Honda 2 marks 2nd Ian Margetts Fantic 6 marks 3rd Mark Hallows Majesty 8 marks Classic Expert British Bike 1st Peter Carson Bantam 0 marks 2nd Robert Spencer Ariel 14 marks 3rd Barry Burton James 21 marks Classic Expert Twinshock 1st David Pattison Bultaco 8 marks 2nd Anthony Sprinks Bultaco 18 marks 3rd Peter Kearsley Honda 24 marks Classic Expert Pre95 Air Cooled Mono 1st Michael Dorricott Honda 17 marks Intermediate British Bike 1st Harry Lyons Bantam 20 marks 2nd Werner Eckel Japette 26 marks Intermediate Twinshock 1st Mark Kearsley Yamaha 9 marks 2nd Steve Fletcher Yamaha 14 marks 3rd John Morley Honda 16 marks Classic Intermediate British Bike 1st Paul Beswick James 2 marks 2nd Peter Elvidge Bantam 5 marks 3rd Dave Pickering Bantam 26 marks Classic Intermediate Twinshock 1st Tony Shaw Bultaco 1 mark 2nd Andrew Rivington Yamaha 6 marks 3rd Peter Austin Bultaco 16 marks Clubman British Bike 1st Arthur Tomkinson Greeves 2 marks 2nd Steve Turner Cub 2 marks 3rd Peter Cotterill Bantam 7 marks Clubman Twinshock 1st Martin Falconer Bultaco 5 marks 2nd Mike Watson Fantic 9 marks 3rd Tony Fray Yamaha 11marks

Just to confirm that Round 2 of the 2014 Club Championship will definitely take place at Dudwood Farm, nr Elton, Derbyshire this Sunday 23rd February to be followed by the presentation of the awards for the 2013 season at the Miners Standard pub just up the road. The event starts as usual at 11.00 am and there are Expert, Classic Expert, Intermediate, Classic Intermediate and Clubman routes along with classes for British Bikes, Pre85 Twinshocks, Pre95 air Cooled monos and O/ 60's on modern bikes. I have been down there today laying out the sections and I must admit after the torrential rain of late I was pleasantly surprised at how well the ground has drained. So please come along and support the club and bring an observer if possible. See you there

What make is it BTW?

OK Charlie I'm admonished. Taken a look and looks good. I think I like Andys method so will probably pursue that route but knowing me I will get distracted and will probably end up just buying a frame off somebody. thanks for the info

You certainly like a challenge good luck.

Well as the title suggests does anybody know what size taper roller bearings will fit the headstock on a D14/4 Bantam ? I can machine the stem on the yokes to suit so within reason the id doesn't matter. Thanks in anticipation.

Exactly !

Agreed Charlie. I get my ear bent on a regular basis about this subject too but do the people ever turn up? No. I have offered to lay out sections for them. Do they ever turn up? No. I have offered to put on a class for them. Do they ever promise to turn up ? No. Ive even suggested they come along when I'm laying out for the trial to make sure the sections would be suitable or at least a route for them would be. Do they turn up ? HAVE A GUESS !!!! Most of them seem more bothered about what is the correct RAL code for the tank or are those bolts cycle thread because they should be you know and they are loaded from the wrong side Blah Blah Blah. To be honest I'm fed up of hearing the same old same old. If there are enough people out there who want this then get off your lycett sprung fat backsides and stop moaning and bloody well sort it out. I don't know of one CoC who would refuse your help laying out or one Trial Secretary who wouldn't want to see you sign on at their event. Ask yourself how many events have you helped lay out? How many events have you officiated at? How many events do you ride in a year? How many different clubs are you a member of? If you don't like the fact there are no mutually agreed P65 rules then damn well write some and lobby as many clubs as you can to adopt them. No point doing it on here get out there and do it canvas opinion on the ground on the day. The rest of us are too busy trying to run Trials Clubs, find and retain land, lay out courses, take entries on the day and of course publish results to people who think the bloody night fairies come out and do it not usually one bloke on his own in the p****** rain. NOT directed at you Charlie as I know you have been there done it and probably made a loss like the rest of us doing so. Rant over

All I can add to this is I am old enough to remember how bloody awful those old bikes were. You would struggle to even get round half of the course on the easy route at our trials. You asked earlier would I be interested in riding one ? No I would sooner go fishing. Sorry but I would. The reason for me stating about the use of a Dunlop Trials Loonyversal is that they didn't grip so sections were mostly flat, relative to today, and as the bike had no ground clearance anyway and no suspension rock steps and logs were a no no. Just look at the Scottish the sections of old are mostly now just trails linking todays sections. Why ? because modern tyres and suspension have rendered them too easy even on an Original bike whatever that is. Nobody has ever laid down any rules because nobody can get together and find people who would adhere to them. If you think it' such a good idea then good luck to you start a club with your rules but every time I suggest that nobody does. Personally I'm not anti old original bikes I just don't see the point. Then again I don't see the point of going to Telford etc to look at polished examples of competition machinery that never gets ridden. Different strokes for different folks.

I would have thought the biggest item that should be addressed with this "original P65 class" you are suggesting is NOT to allow any modern tyres or suspension as those two items alone have made even "original" machinery 200% more capable than it ever was in the day. I astounds me how many people seem to have no comprehension of how bloody awful the Dunlop Trials Universal really was. If you want to have a "original" class then suspension that works and tyres that grip have no place in it. Cant see that happening can you ?

what rule book? Or rather whose rule book?

Now dabster that's the best idea I've seen yet. Excellent suggestion.

The headline in one of the National papers read “wettest winter EVER ! “. Well I wouldn’t for once question that statement and the going at the Peak Classic trials Clubs opening round of their 2014 Club Championship season was decidedly on the waterlogged side. Clerk of the Course Paul Beswick did his best to try to avoid the worst of the gooey mud but to totally avoid it was an impossibility and the car park resembled the Somme. Not all the sections were so badly affected though with the main culprits being sections 1 & 2 which were very tricky after the first lap and took marks off everybody which resulted in nobody having a clean round let alone a clean bike at the end of the day. In the Expert Twinshock class 2013 Championship winner Mark Weston continued his winning ways on his Montesa taking the honours from Steve Hitchcock, Honda, by just the one mark with Mark on 15 and Steve snapping at his heals on 16. Third was unlucky Ian Margetts who suffered reliability problems on his Fantic but still managed to record a credible score of 19 marks lost. In the British Bike Classic Expert class the relentless onward march to Classic British Bike domination by the BSA Bantam continued with Peter Carson conquering the opposition to take first with a miserly loss of only 6 marks. Second was Mick Ash aboard his James on 15 which left David Dench to take third on 20 marks. The Bantam has become the machine to beat nowadays and you really struggle if you haven’t got one as seen in all the British Bike classes on the day. David Pattison, Bultaco, has moved up to the Classic Expert Twinshock class for 2014 but continued his 2013 winning ways by taking an easy class win with a loss of just 21 marks from second placed Peter Kearsley, Honda, losing 40 and Ian Bend, Fantic, rounded off the top three with a loss of 44 marks. David definitely looks the man to beat this year in the Twinshock class. As I said earlier the Bantam whitewash continued in the Intermediate British Bike class with Mark Spencer cruising to a win on just 9 marks lost from Colin Fray, Dot, in second on 25 followed in third by his nephew young Harry Lyons again on a Bantam who lost 36. Intermediate Twinshocks honours went to Andrew Slack who took his Fantic to the win losing 21 marks from John Morley, Honda, who lost 38 leaving Mark Kearsley, Yamaha, to secure third place losing 42. Back to the British Bikes and the Classic Intermediate route this time and those Bantams were at it again with Bantam mounted Peter Elvidge easily taking the win from Paul Beswick on his James trailing in his wake. Peter lost a mere 12 marks which would have been so much better if not for a very unfortunate 5 on section 1 on the first lap. Third place was Rob Goodwin on his Francis Barnett who lost 32 marks. Nice to see the ladies getting one over on the boys and Margaret Carter, Majesty, did it in style easily winning the Classic Intermediate class in 12 marks from Tony Shaw in second on 38 and Peter Austin also Bultaco mounted like Tony tieing up third on 53. Which brings us to the Clubman classes and those Bantams very nearly did it again but the faithful Tiger Cub of Steve Turner managed to thwart their quest for total domination with a great ride to lose only 8 marks keeping the Bantams of Dave Pickering in second on 23 and Peter Cotterills Bantam in third on 29. Clubman Twinshock was won by young Michael Fletcher, Yamaha, riding in only his second season and having a great ride to lose just 16 marks from Tony Fray also Yamaha mounted in second on 23 marks. Cliff Richards shadowed them to take third on 26 marks. All good stuff lads. Finally great to see former East Midlands ACU Centre Champion Barrie Rodgers out again on his TY250 mono who had an enjoyable ride in the Air Cooled mono class and lost just 10 marks in the process. So that just about ties it up for round 1 of the 2014 Club Championship and with 11 more rounds to go I think there will be some closely fought battles this season and it will be interesting to see if anybody can stop those pesky Bantams from sweeping all before them. The next round will be at Burycliffe quarry, Elton, Nr Matlock on Sunday 23rd February start time 11.00am See you there. Expert Twinshock 1st Mark Weston Montesa 15 marks 2nd Steve Hitchcock Honda 16 marks 3rd Ian Margetts Fantic 19 marks Classic Expert British Bike 1st Peter Carson Bantam 6 marks 2nd Mick Ash James 15 marks 3rd David Dench Tiger Cub 20 marks Classic Expert Twinshock 1st David Pattison Bultaco 21 marks 2nd Peter Kearsley Honda 40 marks 3rd Ian Bend Fantic 44 marks Classic Expert Pre95 Air Cooled Mono 1st Michael Dorricott Honda 58 marks Intermediate British Bike 1st Mark Spencer Bantam 9 marks 2nd Colin Fray Dot 25 marks 3rd Harry Lyons Bantam 36 marks Intermediate Twinshock 1st Andrew Slack Fantic 21 marks 2nd John Morley Honda 38 marks 3rd Mark Kearsley Yamaha 42 marks Classic Intermediate British Bike 1st Peter Elvidge Bantam 12 marks 2nd Paul Beswick James 25 marks 3rd Rob Goodwin Francis Barnett 32 marks Classic Intermediate Twinshock 1st Margaret Carter Majesty 12 marks 2nd Tony Shaw Bultaco 38 marks 3rd Peter Austin Bultaco 53 marks Clubman British Bike 1st Steve Turner Tiger Cub 8 marks 2nd Dave Pickering Bantam 23 marks 3rd Peter Cotterill Bantam 29 marks Clubman Twinshock 1st Michael Fletcher Yamaha 16 marks 2nd Tony Fray Yamaha 23 marks 3rd Cliff Richards Ossa 26 marks Clubman Pre 95 Air Cooled Mono 1st Barrie Rodgers Yamaha 10 marks

Just a question. Why are villiers motors classed as unit construction when because the gearbox is clearly bolted on they aren't ? Never understood that one. So where did villiers engined bike's stand in your rules Deryk? It's obvious a Bantams unit and a C15 etc but a villiers should be pre unit surely?

Well T&MX have done it again! in "Whats on" they have put our trial on this Sunday as being at Clifton Scrambles course nr Ashbourne Derbyshire which it is but they have also included directions to Bracken Rocks, Holloway, Nr Matlock, Derbyshire. THE TRIAL MOST DEFINATELY IS ON AND WILL BE AT CLIFTON SCRAMBLES COURSE OFF THE A515 NEAR ASHBOURNE DERBYSHIRE. There will be Expert, Classic Expert, Intermediate, Classic Intermediate and Clubman routes and classes for British Bikes, Pre85 Twinshocks, Pre95 Air Cooled monos, Sidecars and over 60's on modern machinery. PB Trialsport have also sponsored a Championship class for the O/60's on modern bikes over the Intermediate route. So I hope this has now been cleared up and everybody who was considering coming now knows where the event will be held. Start time 11.00am See you there

Sorry then I bow to your superior knowledge Charlie. The memory must be fading it was so long ago. Perhaps the Bantams were all 4speed too with central plug heads? Funny I could have sworn they were 3speed in 1964. Oh well I must be mistooked.

At first glance it almost looks like a mono Yamaha with two shocks fitted. Very nice bike though and would love to see more piccys.

how many with square barrels and points on sidecase

Didn't say they ruled just that it's nice to see so many 3 speed Bantams being used as the factory intended

The way I see it about queue jumping is the person doing it thinks they are somehow better than everyone else. It always seems to be the so called Expert rider that does this and never the Clubman. It's the same when you have to observe each other most of them just ride off never talking their turn with the board. Same with riding sections out of order another no no in my book but a typical Expert ploy. Well you asked about trials ettecate well there's quite a bit to have a go at in the replies so far.

I've always thanked the observers and the CoC as it's only common courtesy and polite. Unlike pushing to the front of a queue which is plain ignorant and very bad manners and I don't care who it is. No rider is more important than any other. If it's you job then as a representative of that company it is your duty to represent them in a good light. THAT'S WHAT'S WRONG WITH THE WORLD TODAY and no wonder the kids grow up bloody minded, selfish, self centered and ignorant.