alan bechard

Of course sometimes Mich does not agree with himself, but I don't always either. Quote from Lane taken from another place out of a thread. I've found the asking questions thing works well. Also when they get a little older you can ride the same sections that they do, which is a blast. What I do is demo the sections for him and they tend to follow along. As they become more independent they soon start finding lines that are acutally better for them than what you can pick. It ends up being a lot of fun. Most importantly, don't push them! If they want to ride hard they will. If they don't just let them have fun. End of that quote. Here is another from a different place. barcota, thank you for your kind comments. Please also be yourself! It never hurts my feelings if somebody disagrees with me, I believe that the internet is the thinktank of the 21st century where ideas live or die by being discussed in the open. I've been an avid trials fan since I was 18! I've also always been interested in the sports organization and developement. I'm not sure if there is really a right or wrong way to organize the sport, all that's really required is that we are all having fun. Lane End of quote again. There are others, but those two came out, and Mich wanted to know what I agreed with him on....

Did you finally talk to steve? Bet that was a short interesting conversation.

As you said NS it is pointless, most, but so is most of this discussion because the real point is WHO is going to do anything about getting YOUR stated goal accomplished? The point is that to hold a FIM licence you must have a drivers license. Some countries in the EU (actually I believe many, but I certainly know of 1) and I bet the UK guys will be more familiar then I, only allow you to have a "limited" licence under the age of 18. That in turn tends to drive the size requirements on the bikes. But either way the 125 World Championship is out there to grab, and someone needs to go chase it. You think that a 125 national class or classes will help to make that happen, I think that a motivated youngster is what will make that happen and I would be suprised if that class motivates a youngster to want to get onto the world stage but hey, as I have said several times in the past, go make it happen, my kid may benefit from it. Here I go, I will throw out the gauntlet. All the players that can make what you are talking about happen will be at the WR coming up May 20 and 21. You agree to come down and work and I think there is an open bunk in the cabin for a worker, and I will get you a workers pass. We hang out at a section together and debate that till the ends of the earth and I will introduce you to everyone I know about that, and we will find the folks I don't know and introduce ourselves together. I am sure we will have food and uh,,,, drink covered YOU HEAR THAT MARK, that cactus juice best be tasty! and we can maybe do something positive about getting something going instead of blathering on about it on the bulletin board. So did you ever figure out who your NATC rep is and talk to them about this proposal?

Darn, computer browsers or whatever it looks different here. Section 052 where it is talking about the 125 and womens championship, page 33 and 34. I apologize, but I am not computer literate enough to figure out how to grab that PDF and point to it directly. Here is the short version. The reason that they have the 125 class is to fit in with the drivers licensing requirements. All this about the progression level etc. while I agree with in principal, is not why this exists. It is because of the way the Europeans do their drivers licensing and run their events. It is all moot, you seem set on a 125 National class. Personally I believe it to be a can of worms. I like the freedom of run what you brung that exists in trials. (of course I like to bring something different sometimes) But hey, if that is YOUR goal, to see that 125 class adopted and put forth into fruition, more power to you. My kid may benefit from it. However I would suggest to you that you may find yourself disheartened after the NATC meeting if this is your goal. Then again, maybe not, and if you want to make it work, I would suggest linking up with Ron C as he also stated that he would like to see a 125 class occur and he is a sitting member at that table. Good luck. Looks like in OK those classes will be limited to 80's by the way if the weenies have thier way.

http://www.fim.ch/en/default.asp?item=28# Cannot figure out how to grab the actual rules, but if you go there, then to the left side of the screen, then go to rules, then trials, then go there it will open a PDF and it will tell you why they limit to 125's As to why the SX is broke up, again,, we see things differently, my take on that was that they had so many riders they had to break it in half to give everyone a chance to compete. The numbers are overwhelming. You ever ride HS? When I go to a MSHS, I am way back in the old fat slow incompetent guy class, and somehow believe it or not, there are folks behind me,,, anyway, there are more people on my starting lane then there are at a regional trials event. And MX is more popular then that. Personally, I believe it was Tom Golden that nailed it on popularity on this thread.

I guess I would say read it again. As I read it it is the FIM complying with the drivers licensing rules. Did the UK go over into the EU?

Hmmmm,,,, Funny that they mention the drivers license stuff there. Someone had mentioned that was why they did the classes that way, but to hear it told here, it was to make them (the Youth) competetive in the 125 champ class... Anyway, so that would make it 128 cc's permissible. I would imagine that is why the 200's and 160's are not very popular, kind of a tween thing.

UK guys (well European but that mostly means you UK guys here) This may be a slightly funny question for you guys, What is the definition of a 125. Exactly how many CC's are allowed? What is the determining factor? Would a punched up Scorpa be OK? Is there ( I would think there would be) a max # of CC's allowed that fit within the constraints of the 125 class? Are they allowing the 4 strokes to compete at a larger displacemnent? Are your rules posted somewhere?

I pray every night for patience.... God grant me patinece, and give it to me now............................

Started because that was what Dad Rode, Little Grand Canyon, Brooksville Fl. 73 / 74 time frame? Got back into Trials after riding HS for a bit because my son got old enough to start riding (4) and was Jumping over an ammo box in the back yard on a PW 50 and was doing a "No Hander" (intentionally) a few too many extreme MX video's. At that point I went in and called my Dad, said, hey, how do I get him to not do this stuff, he needs control etc. I see trips to the hospital in my immediate future. Old man said ride trials, I said nobody rides trials around here anymore, Old man said, best get started now then. What would get more people riding.... ? Darn if I honestly know. Some things have been successful that we have done, and some not, and sometimes the same thing will work with one person and not another. What I try and think makes a difference. My office walls are covered in Trials posters and pictures. People come in just to see them, had a construction crew in the yard yesterday and one guy went out and brought the rest of the crew in too see them. Offer to take anyone riding with an interest, there are usually extra bikes available, and we have an excellent riding area with everything from about a 3 acre field, to National level obstacles. Do Demo's, parades, bikers parties, shows for folks that want. Often these do not feel like they work out, but years later I still have people come up to me saying they saw Trials bikes in a Christmas parade several years ago. (happened last week) Also get to meet some great folks that while I do not think they will ride, come in and help and provide some of the strength it takes to pull off events. Hold local events here in the area. Everything from full tilt regional events hosting to two clubs that we sit in the middle between (STRA and TI) to fun get together rides with a couple of people. Right now in my area, we are somewhat on a decline, we kind of phased through were there were several of us actively participating, then it has slowed due to other commitments. I for one am getting tagged pretty well with work and the home business and at some point Trials falls to the side. But a funny thing has happened to me the last couple of days, Dean has come up in the evening and said let's get the bikes out and ride. So we did

Well Moleman, I need to be around you next tire I do. I swear I have used every lubricant you mentioned and some you did not, have not tried the KY warming personal lubricant yet but that was because bagger hid it. Anyway, if you can get a modern tubeless tire to seat bead at 50psi, I am impressed and as I am not too far south of Missouri, I can just say "show me" You in the US? Be at the WR?

Mostly because I was interested. Is it important? Not really in the long run, it is really just me gathering information, keeping conversation on this BB, and looking for other ideas and insights that hopefully I could put into play to bring new riders into the sport. When NSAGM stated that 4 folks in his area bought bikes and started riding trials solely because of the world round, it took me back a bit. This doubled the number of riders in his local area he said. As I have NEVER encountered a rider that said he started because of world level riding and exposure, I found this to be unusual and something I wanted to look into. My experience, and the experience of several folks that I know, has been just the opposite. Usually when folks see WR level stuff, I hear, that's impressive, I could never do that, or wow, incredible, no way I would let my child do something so dangerous. So I guess it is not that important, but I know it has given myself, and I believe several others, a good read and an insight into why some folks have taken up trials.

Hmmm, let me try again, who's goals are these? And you want who to do it? Because that is what you feel is important, does not make that what everyone feels is important. Do I think the NATC should strive for your goal? I think the NATC should strive for their goal. Have you read their mission statement? Have you spoken to anyone that sit's on the NATC board? Have you reviewed their website, do you KNOW (not what Lane tells you by the way) what the NATC goals are? Would it be nice to have WTC competitors? sure, would I love to see some US folks at the WTC level, absolutely, but that is not my end goal. If that is truly what your goal is, I would suggest that you hook up with a rising star, or stars and do your absolute best to make sure that they have the backing to get there. Whether your expertise is in publicity, minding, mechaincing or whatever, I am sure there are several folks that would welcome your assistance. Hope it works out well for you. Hope you can make it too the WR coming up in a month. Seems that would be the place to start in any endeavor that was to end in a WTC.

Not sure I want to ask why, or maybe more appropriately what brought you too the sport. This is a spinoff question from another post where another gentleman said that he and several others started riding becuase of the WR. I have honestly never met anyone that started riding becuase of a WR, much less kept riding, everyone I know rides to be with their buds and have a good time. Or in my case, to try and beat Doug, which I have not been to successful at this past year. So anyway, Why did you start, or maybe what was the kicker that started you riding (Trials)? Why do you continue to ride? And maybe the follow on question, what would get more people riding trials?

Cool to see you here CJ.

What I would suggest if I had my way, would be that we support those that are out there doing the work and running the series. I would suggest that we capitalize on our already existing class structures, that give the widest opportunity for youth to compete that I have seen. I would suggest that we work hard to bring other new riders into the sport, that we concentrate these efforts initially on the MX / HS / enduro folks that are reaching my age (around 40) and do not want their children going through the broken bones etc. of MX. These folks understand the costs involved in a motorcycle sport. I would suggest that we work at the local level, to develop the sport there, to have trials thriving at a local level, will elevate the sport at the upper levels. I would do this by forming a club for my local area, then doing my best to promote the sport in the local area and trying to attract new riders into the sport. (Just a small tidbit of info, I have never had a rider want to take up riding because of the WTC, Most just want something cool to do with their freinds.) I would suggest that we try and unify clubs across the US into using the same class structure at the club level, and god forbid, the same set of rules. I would suggest that we try and "regionalize" trials somewhat in the US so that a rider could progress from a "local" to a "regional" to a "US" championship. I would suggest that we work to make sure that all the kids that would like to participate in the YN have the opportunity, that they have the financial resources to do that, and the summer camp that goes with it. I believe that the way to WTC finishes for the US is the ability to get young riders together, training, riding, joking and having a good time togeteher, then pushing one upmanship and "I can do that and you cant" on to the next level and I believe that the US youths will move forward in the WTC standings. Hmmmmm,,,, probably a bunch I missed, but that should give you something to throw back at me. Some other thoughts, you keep referring to making money for the importers, dealers, this comes from the working guy buying a bike and going out and playing on it. Go out and ask, how many folks bought bikes because of WTC stuff (or GNCC or MX etc) I believe that you will find that most folks, just like trials folks, bought bikes, and do the sport for the fun of it. Not to be World Champ. You want to help those guys, go out and form a club and get some new riders riding. Oh,,, and a final PS. Having my kid be a WTC rider is not my goal, nor for a matter of fact(and more importantly) either of my kids goals at this point. Me spending some quality time with my kids was why I got back into trials when they came of age, and they could be around the group of folks that trials tends to attract. I believe that you will find that the "norm" for riders from any country.

I guess this is about it in a nutshell NSAGAM, It is actually not that I am against a 125 class. You seem to think that if I do not agree with you, then I am against you. I do not think that the 125 class will help to accomplish the goals that you are stating. I do not believe that the general populace of the NATC, and probably more specificly the promotors, are going to buy into it. Why not just have Lane present it himself? Last year I believe he had the opportunity as a "diplomat" I believe it was referred to, to attend the NATC meeting and he chose not too. I would suggest, that you speak with your NATC rep, which I am guessing is Steve Ahlers, and get his view on the plan, before spending a great amount of time on it. I believe, and heck, it would not hurt my feeling's if I was wrong, that you will recieve a response very much (if not exactly) like what Ishy gave you before, and that was, if you want to see it happen, go make it happen, and come back to us when you have proven it to be a success. Again, you feel like I am against you, but you may find after spending some time out riding with these folks, and getting to know them, that maybe I am trying to share some insight to save you some hassell. Then again, I think you and Lane should charge up and make it right and I will applaud your success and ride along on your coattails when Trials becomes the next big sport. And yes, I speak to the NATC reps for the clubs that I belong too quite regularly, as a matter of fact I make it a point to seek out the NATC reps from other clubs, and folks such as importers, Pro Riders, Ambassador's, or diplomats that I believe will attend the NATC meeting and voice my opinion directly to them. This I believe is how positive change is effected within the NATC. (take that for what it is worth) The ranting's on this bulletin board are considered pretty much just that. Are they doing what I would like? No. Do they do everything that I think they should for Trials. No, but then I have to temper that with the fact that they are just like me, and they are doing everything that they can, Every one of them is putting far more into the sport then I, so I can see their logic when they say if you want to see it done, hop too it. And they are not saying write a proposal. I wish you the best of luck with your proposal.

Gee Lane, Let me get my timeline correct, when did you drop out of trials? And you dropped out why? Wouldn't that be about the same time that we had a US World Champ? And so in your memory Trials was prospering. So you are saying that when Trials was really prospering in the US, you dropped out to be a carpenter because you could not make money in Trials? Somehow Lane you just leave me dazed and confused. Sorry I make you mad Lane, I just reject your version of reality. And I just gotta know. What line will you guys propose that the 125 class (s?) ride?

So by that reasoning NSAGM, and another one of my absurd observations, somewhere in the late 70's to very early 80's the Trials scene in the US must have taken off and grown larger. Hmmmm, I was riding at the time and just do not seem to remember that being the case.

How do you think some of those Freestyle BMX guys would do on trials bikes? The amount of control that they have over the bicycles is ludicrous, how would that translate into ability to ride sections? Has anyone seen one of the very competent FBMX guys riding Trials?

Hey NSAGM, Check this out. http://www.trialscentral.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=8484 Now just how absurd was what I said? As to sponsorship, I have always told my kids they have a full, 100% sponsored ride, meals, travel, entry fee's bikes are all covered by www.awomanstouch.net (Hanna does not find that near as funny as I do)

It was bicycle trials, but how much exposure to the general public do you think it got? Auditoriums (sp) full of folks. I wonder if they associated it with trials, or had any idea, or if it was just a Circus act for them? Wonder if it will be Motorcycles next time? It was impressive though.

My dad made them with a speaker so you could hear it break. I will get his e-mail, or point him here, or e-mail me at trialsalan you know what bellsouth.net and I will give you his phone #. Easy for me to say, but if I remember right it was pretty simple. Nowing my dad it would not suprise me if he has one somewhere in his shop.

Trivial pursuit kind of thing, not trying to take away from Kevin's post. I had the opportunity to visit the INA / FAG factory in Germany over christmas and visit with a 2nd cousin, that lived with us while attending University. Anyway, I showed him the numbers, talking about the dogbone bearings and what could be done better, what could be sealed etc. and he was just oh, yes, that would be a Hulse Kessel (spelling is wrong I think) It made perfect sense to him, Took me a while to think about what it meant. Hulse would be shell, or seed, or husk, I think shell would be the closest in this instant. on edit the U should have umlats as well. Kessel means Drawn or Deep drawn, or maybe extruded. Normally referring to Steel. on Edit, I had this word wrong it is Ka (with Umlats) fig Kafig. So when you see the HK, it means that it is a shell bearing that has a drawn steel shell. I guess I found it interesting because I never knew, and it made a lot more sense when it was explained to me. I learned an awful lot of bearing terminology (and technology) came from Germany. Oh, and as to better replacements, he said not really cost effectively. There was all sorts of things that could be done, but that was what they called a "stock" or "catalouge" bearing that was built to be a middle of the road, best for many applications bearing. He said to keep them clean and greased and they would last an awful long time......

Your right, I am absurd, and am making absurd examples. And of course with your experience and insight you have it spot on. Yup we get that 125 class we will have world Champs in no time. Eagerly watching to see it implemented next year. On edit, Are you sure about the "facts" that you are quoting that the 125's came about in Europe because they made the class? Second Edit, Ok, I cannot stand it, why is my analogy absurd? Because I am suggesting folks ride smaller displacement bikes as a means to improve their skills? Because I am telling another country to do it? Because it would be ridiculous to expect everyone to change because I thougt it a great idea? Because of the Ray Peters riding champ level stuff was ridiculous? Because I suggested that the UK needs a World Champ? Spell it out please, exactly why was what I said absurd, or is it just absurd when others say something that you do not agree with?