as I see I don't have these parts you mentioned. to sum up, I need parts 13, 20, 41, 43 and after changing all of them I can be 100% sure that's everything okay with oil from gearbox, right?
thank you so much again
regards
Well, I am not sure about 100% , but I would say that if those parts are changed you should be reasonably confident that the usual ways for gearbox oil to get to the combustion chamber are fixed.
Be sure to take note of the location of the outside hole of the main bearing when you pop it out to change 41, it needs to match up with a hole in the cases to allow the gearbox oil to lube the bearing.
Good luck sir, and may your oil troubles be fixed.
yes, I measured it, there was always big difference.
my gas gas is from 2008. so about these o-rings, you mean that part number 20 from the first picture can be also possible source of the problem?
the O-ring part number 20 in your pic may be a source of issue, but that O-ring may be integrated into the new style bearings that eliminates the need for the collars that I have on my bike. the O-rings and collar I was referring to are Part numbers 1 and 2 in this Pic:
It appears to me that according to your parts listing for 2008 you have the "new" style main bearing. (pic below) this has the O-rings number 20 sand 41 built in. I am not sure if these O-rings can be purchased separately.
Pic of "new upgraded main bearing" Note the internal and external O-rings.
1. Start your bike, let it idle for a bit and note how much it smokes, in Neutral rev it up as though you are about to hit a 4 ft splatter. Does it smoke the same as idle or more. If more you most likely have a seal of some type leaking. If smoke is the same go to step 2.
2. Go for a blast in 5/6 gear getting exhaust good and hot. Does it smoke more now, if yes probably just oil build up in exhaust burning off.
You mention losing gearbox oil so I am betting step 1. will smoke more.
common Locations of oil getting into cylinder:
crank seal / associated O-rings on clutch side, center gasket,
Depending on what year GasGas Pro you have you may have the new upgrade crank bearings or you may not.
If you have the old style like I do there is a collar on the crankshaft, this collar has an O-ring between the collar and the crankshaft.
I had that O-ring go bad once and the bike was consuming oil.
It is a right Bas*ard to change and I changed the O-rings and collar. Old collar comes off hard.
When stop allowed but no reversing if you watched where somebody started hopping from and then where they finished up they could of gone back a few inches but you could never tell at which point they actually went back but they did -5's were hardly ever given.
Also I found you had to use more markers and tape to stop riders splitting sections into sevral zones each being attempted at odd angles of attack rather than a straightforward route through the planned section.
As said already the simple answer is that there isn't one!!
I am ok with hopping causing a rider to move back a couple of inches, but I also believe that attempting an obstacle, keeping both feet on the pegs and failing the obstacle, but backing up and attempting again is a 5. due to the fact the rider already failed the obstacle the first attempt.
Using more markers and tape is half the fun of setting up a section: "How can I force them to ride this the way I want them to?"
Personal opinion, can't remember where I first saw this but I believe ITSA (USA) runs with these rules.
This makes sense to me for how the sport and riders have progressed.
Stop, balance, feet up, no other support = 0
stay moving, feet up, balance, no other support = 0
Stop, foot down, or other support (ex. leaning on tree) = 5.
This allows for stop and hop, or no-stop equally, but penalizes the rider for the "all day dab".
But you better be able to stop and hop without putting your foot down. If MOTA went to these rules I would have to drop a class in order to not get maximum points. I would be ok with that. Section severity would not need to change, in order to make it harder. Just need to have better control of your bike.
A perfect assessment of the situation as regards what I said on the subject; down to a tee and on the oil thing the Vertigo motor in the UK and other places in Europe runs on a mix of 200:1 and there have been no complaints over a years usage ..... there is also a post on here of some one in Italy in a region where it gets a lot hotter than the UK and he has been running 80:1 in an aircooled twinshock trial bike for along while and after the first year of running at 80:1 he says that he stripped his engine and found no abnormal wear.
This key board Warror thing is getting like Trumps "Fake News" media captioning........mind you it is very on trend ;is it not, given the current sabre rattling going on around the planet ,performed on Twithead and facefxxx
I only mentioned "keyboard warrior" because I wasn't sure if I was explaining what people already knew and I may have mis-interpreted their posts.. But from the sounds of it we are all on the same page of what the issues are with Nubsey's bike. and what the repairs should be.
Oh this is getting needlessly messy... I am going back to my coffee.
I would rather not discuss Trump, "Fake News", or the Sabre rattling that is occurring on social media, too much drama and anger there.
Nubsey,
Keep us informed on the performance of the bike, and hope you have many hours of fun with the grandson.
Hi all have hit a snag with the oilseal. I need a puller to remove the flywheel under the big nut on the clutch side. Anyone know whats it's called and where one can get hold of one. It looks like it would have two bolts that go into the flywheel with a bar that would go over the main shaft and then another bolt that would screw down on the main shaft. Have put up a picture of the part that has to come off.
Personal opinion here. Possible "keyboard warrior" moment. without actually being there to see the bike etc.
I think some of my very knowledgeable fellow TC home mechanics may be getting confused due to terminology being used.
The pic above Nubsey has referred to as the "flywheel behind the big nut". Most of us when we see "flywheel" we think of the stator side of the engine and a hole in that seal would suck in air, causing a lean condition making the bike rev higher, etc... But what he is actually referring to here is the gear on the crankshaft that drives the clutch basket.
So my recap: (if I am incorrect please let me know)
Bike is a 2000 GasGas, this is before the pro and the motor is very similar to a Sherco of the same year. (because Sherco based theirs on GasGas). There is only one Crankshaft seal on each side of the motor.
The hole in the Crankshaft seal on the clutch side of the motor behind the crankshaft gear pictured above will allow the gearbox oil to be sucked into the cylinder and burned, causing massive smoking and the loss of gearbox oil.
I believe the spring side of the seal is to be oriented towards the "pressure" side of the seal, in this case, as the piston comes down it will provide pressure toward the seals and this will actually "push" the seal against the shaft assisting with the sealing abilities.
I think the remaining smoking when revved hard is due to running 50:1 on your pre-mix. Yes it can be done, yes it will run, but it is not necessary to run that much oil in the premix. Most trials bikes are running 80:1, a few at 70:1, a couple at 90:1, I even heard of one running 100:1.
If you have not repacked the muffler there could be some smoking from there if it happens after running it hard down a trail getting the exhaust very hot and "burning" the oil out of the muffler packing.
OK sorry for long post, "keyboard warrior" moment has passed.
(don't know why the hole was in the seal, may never know, chalk it up to gremlins)
When we got the bike, there was an old oil seal so wondering if it's already been changed, or perhaps there isn't one. Only a strip down will tell.Many thanks for saying it's only the clutch side, save me money on stuff I don't need, as I was going to do both sides.
How do I know how much packing to use, can I use the old packing as a pattern and cut off the correct length?
Nubsey
OH I have all kinds of opinions..... HAHAHAHAHA
What I do for the packing is just open the bag and wrap the center tube with all of the packing that is there. The packing I get is one piece similar to a chunk of insulation.
Step two: repack the muffler - Local motorcycle shop should have "exhaust packing"
drill out rivets holding end cap, remove end cap. Pull perforated tube out of muffler along with all old packing. Make sure holes in center tube are clear, they can fill up with carbon, gunk etc.., make sure inside of muffler is clean. Wrap center tube with new packing, may have to wrap it a little tight to get it to fit back in muffler, cut the excess length of packing off.
SHOVE the wrapped center tube back into the muffler, line up the tube with the hole at the end of the muffler, reinstall end cap making sure to line up the hole with the center tube. Rivet end cap back on.
Hanging exhaust center box over a pail wouldn't hurt either to let anything in there drip out that could drip out.
Step three: run bike
Step four: IF you are burning transmission oil it will be either the crankshaft seal on the clutch side, (that is where the oil is, Flywheel side would let air in and the bike would run lean and rev up a bunch) or the center gasket failed between transmission and Crankshaft area.
You stated " I seriously suspect the oilseals on the crank case. Could drain the oil, from gear box and run it, but I suspect it would only prove my thoughts. " NEVER run the bike without fluids in it for lubrication and cooling, BAD things will happen very fast.
550cc from empty but use your sight glass until it's half way up.2007 had a black frame.
2004 and newer (after July 2003)
Example: VTRGG 3002 D093 9955
VTR = International manufacturers code. VTR =GasGas
GG =Trial model (Company code to identify model EC = Enduro & MX, FS = Four Stroke, WD = Quads)
3002:
30 = 300 model.
02 = (02 = year of Europe homogulation N/A USA)
D093:
D = 2003 ALPHA CODE FOR MODEL YEAR.
09 =Manufacture month (9TH month) September.
3 = Year of manufacture 2003.
9955 = sequential chassis number. (9,955th built in this year.)
“Alpha” model year codes Model engine size codes
D = 2003 J = 2008 12 = 125cc
E = 2004 K = 2009 20 = 200 model (175cc)
F = 2005 L = 2010 25 = 250cc
G = 2006 M = 2011 28 = 280 model (272cc)
H = 2007 N = 2012 30 = 300cc
Vtrgg3002f0740086
I would say based on the table above your VIN is for a 2005 model 300cc (also look on the cylinder flywheel side by the exhaust and you should see 30 stamped/cast into it)
3002 = 300 model with the 02 year of Europe homogulation
F = 2005
07 = manufactured in July
4 = manufactured in 2004
0086 = 86th bike made
As for gearbox oil, the Pro engine uses much less than the previous model engine. Takes approx 380cc, but of course watch the sight glass on the clutch cover and fill it to halfway or just above halfway.
Which oil to use? there is a wide range of opinions on that.............
I do miss it, but last one was getting old and because of the high emissions the road tax on it alone was costing me £500 a year (or 680 of your Trump tokens)
That's a lot of extra $$ going out just for the privilege to drive a car. I can understand the decision made.
Be careful with it, don't use too much and I would suggest using the "blue" vs the "red" (what we have in the States) .
The blue will allow for removal, whereas the red is almost permanent.
The head on my bolt is not very thick so there is not much material for the Allen wrench to grab onto and could strip easily, I think it is a 3 mm or 4 mm
Well most people that work on bikes would think it was a fair statement with all the things that have gone wrong. Just the amount of problems the shift shaft alone has caused comeplete tear downs.
On the other hand if I had said that gasser stators held up better than Beta stators do 19 to 1 you would have smiled.
Maybe not, Gassers have had their fare share of rectifier and stator issues as well, (maybe more rectifier issues than stator).
I have had to split the cases an equal number of times for the 03 GasGas 300 as I did with the 2000 Sherco 2.9 I owned before it. In the same period of time.
but to be honest it would have been less for the GasGas except I misdiagnosed a bad rear wheel bearing as being a transmission problem, and one other time I replaced the crank seals but went on the cheap and did not replace the little O-ring under the spacer on the crank shaft.
So basically the Sherco had to be split more often for crank bearing failures than the GasGas for transmission.
I saw a rider in the GP class with back protection. He had a terrible crash in the section I was scoring at Kingman. Too bad the foot peg hit his kidneys two inches away from his protector. I was relieved when he got up and walked out of the section.
PS I have become more comfortable with the wrist strap. It has saved my bike once in the six months of use. It also has caused me to almost crash in 6th gear twice while attempting to scratch my nose.
I have knocked the "button" of the wrist strap off with my belly, and came to an abrupt stop. Wonder if the wrist strap is trying to tell me something?
Posted
·
Edited by zippy Shameless plug for Alpinestars boots
I love my Alpinestars No stops. The sole has a steel shank in it that keeps the sole from flexing/wrapping around the footpegs when landing off steps. (helps my arch not hurt)
I believe the Alpinestars Tech T boots also have the steel shank. which may have helped with your odd landing of toes in the dirt/heal in the air.
Honestly I don't know if other brands of boots have that steel shank in the soles or not.
edit: the No stops are very comfortable, even from new. feels like I am wearing a pair of hiking boots.
Since this was re-kindled, the FIM has two more rules coming. Face guards and they have to be approved and back protection. Before long we will have air bags.
when I bought mine about 4 yrs ago both of my rims had cracks in the vertical bit. I took them to a skilled welder.
He ground a bit out and welded it up. He smoothed the inside surface but at my request left the outside with the weld built up. my theory was keep it stronger.
No problem with the front rim as of yet. the rear rim has held up fine. the rear hub not so much.
Here are some thoughts and suggestions to try before you spend money throwing parts at it.I know from your posts that you have been riding along time and are pretty knowledgeable about bikes.So, I offer my thoughts in hopes they will trigger you to consider something you already know but maybe skipped over in your diagnosis.
Sometimes even the most knowledgeable person will overlook the simple. yep.
Beginning of this riding season I had the front brake working exactly how I want it to work. this past weekend I started having issues again.
I think I found the issue today, but I will save that for last to force you to read my answers below.
Has the bike always done this?If not, then consider what has changed?In your case it sounds like several things have changed in an attempt to eliminate the problem.
when first purchased the lever would pull super easy until brakes engaged then it was almost like an on/off switch. but that on/off point would vary.
Now the lever pull is a little more "progressive", firms up proportional to lever position.
There are 2 main potential types of issues that could be the cause: 1) Mechanical2) Hydraulic.
Mechanical
Something is binding or forcing the pads apart differently sometimes.Your efforts to drill the hotel (ha) and open the holes in the pads should take care of the binding.Did you check for grooves or steps worn into the caliper?I usually will put a very small amount of anti-seize on the sliding surface of the pads and pins.
when I changed the pistons and seals I noticed grooves in the caliper and used a file, etc.. to smooth these out.
After drilling the holes just a hair larger and grinding the width of the pads skinnier both pads will "float" freely in the caliper.
Is the rotor bent?That would wobble and push the pads apart, making for more travel needed to contact the pads.Test with the bike on the stand, front wheel up. Hold a pencil or marker close to the rotor on something solid like a jack stand.Spin the wheel and look at the gap between the rotor and pencil tip.It should be pretty consistent as it spins.
Rotor be straight.
Worn wheel bearings would cause the same sort of wobble.Loose axle bolt could also allow this. Test with bike on stand, brakes off, grab the wheel top and bottom, try to push the top left while pulling the bottom right and repeat. If you feel any looseness or clicking the bearings or axle are probably the culprit.
We will discuss this in a little bit...............there is a hint
Lever and perch.Check for wear in the holes.Out of round holes can cause inconsistent movement.Lube them.
Actually had never thought about this. Lever and master cylinder about a year old, without looking at it, I am just going to say "yeah should be good".... but I will probably take a look at this later.
Hydraulic
You changed the caliper seals and pistons.Did they move smoothly in the bores?Was there any corrosion or pitting?
Free moving pistons with no caliper not attached to bike and brake pads removed. (4 pot caliper)
Is the lever consistently firm or is it mushy sometimes?If it’s mushy, there is still some air in the system.Bleeding these things can be challenging.One trick is to park the bike with the master cylinder being the highest part of the hydraulic system (Bike on the stand, front wheel high, bars full lock left).Apply the front brake and clamp the lever to the bars with a bungie cord to hold brake pressure overnight.This will force any bubble to the top of the master cylinder bore.In the morning, take the cover off and watch as you release the lever.If there was air, you will see it escape through the return port.
consistently firm, used many bleeding techniques, including the brake pressure overnight thing. At this time I am 98% sure there is no air. I don't want to say 100% just in case I am wrong.
Speaking of the return port, you know that when the lever is pulled, the spool inside the master cylinder blocks the return port so the pressure is transferred to the wheel cylinder applying the brakes.When the lever is released, the return port is uncovered to allow the pressure and fluid to flow back into the master cylinder reservoir.If this port is not open, the pressure holds and the brake pads can’t move back from the rotor.The hole could be blocked by some crud or the spool might not be returning fully when the lever is released.With the cover off the M/C, squeeze the brake lever, then release it.You should see a miniature geyser of brake fluid.If it is blocked with crud you can use a thin wire to clear the hole (this is best done with the spool removed otherwise you are pushing crud further into your brake system).If the hole is still covered by the spool, it is not retracting full.This could be caused by
Foreign material between the end of the spool and that little C-clip, or because there is not enough free play in the lever adjustment.
return port is clear, much fluid squirt happens. and there is free play at the lever adjustment, I can wiggle lever without the pin touching the plunger (spool)
Floating disc.
If you still want to try a floating disc, you can simulate that by putting some small o-rings on the bolts each side of the disc but not tightening them too much.This would allow the o-rings to squish, so the rotor can move a little.I would suggest using some sort of removable thread lock so the bolts don’t unscrew while riding.
That is an interesting idea, might be worthwhile just as a test. I don't think I would want to run it that way forever, but could be useful as a test.
Keep us posted on what you find.
So today I thought maybe the front wheel bearings were bad and causing a wobble that transferred into bad front brake.
I popped off the front wheel and to my surprise the wheel bearings were not loose at all.
The wheel bearings so tight they did not roll. Not just hard to roll or notchy. The damn things (both sides) will NOT move.
SO new wheel bearings later and run around yard a bit and I think we are all good again.
The issue I am having is the front brake will engage with the lever at the exact spot I want it to, but during an event in the middle of a random section it will engage with the lever closer to the bars and I don't have the leverage/travel to get the front brake to bite the way it should.
Then later it works fine, almost like air in the system at just that point.
I have done the following:
Bled the system,
Replaced master cylinder
Rebuilt caliper (pistons and seals)
Discovered the pads were binding - ground the edges so the pad would slide in the caliper without touching the caliper and drilled the mounting holes 1 drill bit size larger to allow the pad to slide along the mounting pins.
Replaced front wheel bearings - which I may need to do again.
It is as though for some reason one brake pad contacts the fixed disc and pushes it towards the other pad, but being fixed the disc stays put. then I am waiting for the other pad to come over and press on the disc as well or it never does and there is about half of the force on the disc.
My hope is that a floating disc will "slide over" that little bit, taking up slack from the different variables and allow pads to put pressure on both sides of the disc.
Is that clear as mud?
It will probably be a while before the keeper of the finances lets me try my theory.
I am going back to my coffee.
sadly I've been subaru-less for over a year now. I miss the power 
Air Bags!!!!
txt burns an oil
in Gas Gas
Posted
Well, I am not sure about 100%
, but I would say that if those parts are changed you should be reasonably confident that the usual ways for gearbox oil to get to the combustion chamber are fixed.
Be sure to take note of the location of the outside hole of the main bearing when you pop it out to change 41, it needs to match up with a hole in the cases to allow the gearbox oil to lube the bearing.
Good luck sir, and may your oil troubles be fixed.