rabie

because there is a lot more to it, that is not entirley pertinent to the big theroetical question at the start of this thread and thats probably the only reaosn i won the Pinhard prize (well it wasn't for my trials riding!) firslty cross reference not only rule 23 of the MX rules, but the National Sporting Code and the Maxxis British Motocross Championship standing regulations. Even with all three bit sof papare in fornt of you its slightly confusing. Yes you can construct a legal explanation to tidy up what did happen, if you read all three bits of papaer but htat snot what happened (the mx race distnace bit, esp the e laps but less than 50% reads slightly diffrently to the maxxis) ... eventually what Jezza says (ie no points were awarded) did happen, but not at first. the "intial" action was to declare a result. to broadly sumerize, it turns out half race distnace hadn't elapessed leading for some "parties with intrests" to start to issue/threaten to issue protests / counter protest, etc. then some stuff happend which i really can't go into in public (no comment), then we eventually end up with the race (moto 2 of MX1) being scrapped and the resultant court of enquirey. no comment on the specifics, the results as i said in my first post, is the new ACU MX Manager has been tasked with rewriting the Maxxis rules and the MX rules so there is no scope for discrepancy and they fit exactly in the National Sporting Code. I think from a training point of view all FIM CofC's will have to have in addition to their FIM tickets, UK national tickets. Also the CofC seminars might now include role plays/case studies into protest procedure (esp items such as who is and who isn't eligible to protest, what subject matters can be protested, time frames for protest, etc) - at the end of the day MX, Trials and Enduros just doesn't really have protest like they do (every 5 minutes it seams) in Grasstrack and Road race - so our officials are understandably less experienced in these judicial matters compared to Road race and Grasstrack officials. As above there is a hell of a lot at stake - you only have to look at the arctics, the paid riders, mechanics, etc to realise the size of the budgets, bonuses, etc involved which mean throwing

simply put during a hailstorm (on an otherwise sunny day), the last race was red flagged (everyone is happy up to this point), then the disagreement start, and I'll just say "no comment"

what he said, - seen a handfull dakar bikes do them - its on if your a trials rider

most fundamentally to do it properly a) planning - planning law is not very (if at all) pro motorsport, rpecluding use for more than 28 days (the General Permitted Development Order) insurnace - public liabilty, 3rd party liabilty, personal accidnet, etc, etc (last i herd a mx practice track pays

any usage, inclduing cyclo trails would count as a "permmited development" under planning law (ie one of your 14/28 days)

Right this is a very complex issue and a) I know everyone involved on both sides, I

you can't say who invloved; the federation, FIM, the promoter, the circuit (if diffrent from promoter), etc casued the plug to be pulled in absence of an official (or a QT off the record or grey) explanation

little scope in the UK for using them outside of competions i read an atricle from motocrossdigital (an online - in english - italien off road magazine) that only 25% of trails bike sales in itlay are for competions and all bikes are sold as highways legal by all the importers/manufactures

spud, i probably won't see you till Sidcup's wobbler at the earliest, where i can brief you in excruciating detail on all of these points! If time is short you can call me here at uni or chat to my mum and dad (who have most of the same info) briefly; ( ) "sporting rights" - is land sale code for hunting, fishing, etc - some land doesn't include this and the local hunt may come over, etc planning - for trials, you would be operating under your "permitted development rights" (aka the 14/28 day rule), interpretation is varied (detailed advice on the LARA website). at the strictest you could use it for 14 days of riding bikes at the loosest you could hold 28 separate one day events (with setting up / taking down riding not being n/a). digger, rocks, etc - technically you need planning permission for any earthworks and need a variety of environmental licences to bring in material form off site (earth, rocks, concrete, etc), however most places appear to let you get away with low level earth works (like drainage trenches, etc - so sections dug out like those at Canada Heights are OKish) other usages - they would all build up within your 28 days of permitted development, thus if said council said they think you can have 28 days, any other use would take a day of trials away from you. if they said 14 days then it doesn't hurt and earns you community browny points (that why we let the scouts, cyclo trials, etc use our land)

this site - http://www.eventdirectory.org.uk/ used to list them all (currently down) there are several about all over the place, best look on the enduro type sites (esp bob mullin's enduronews.com, also TBM) for dates bikes ridden range from serious folks on scorpa long rides, though to snesible types on Serrows, TTRs, Pamperas (etc) right up to enduro bikes and even the odd nutter (ktm dakar bikes, etc) trials sections tend to be reltivly easy for a trials rider, becasue they are unseen and most riders have no lock (or trials skills!) down here in the south east there are 3 events in the year; the Sidcup LDT (used to be the OWLS), Timber Woods and the Witley. Regas are out for the Witley (http://www.witleymcc.co.uk/) and you can see reuslts and pic form the other two on the Sidcup website (http://www.sidcupmotorcycleclub.co.uk/)

i second that, as an organiser of very large events i know the kind of chaos and hard that goes into it well done.

not sure about the commentary in the sections (they were to crowded to see who was commentating), but the commentator at the end around the section 14 (?) and the podium was Brian Higgins, who once upon a time (1970s?) was a top trials rider from the south west, but is currently a MX man as series manager for the British MX championship, MX committee member and promoter of two MX rounds this year. I'm not knocking Brian's efforts as commentating is really hard, you need to be able to speak clearly and know what your talking about. The next step is the organiser need to know the people who can do that. There are relatively few "known" people about, and the top starts (eg Jack Burnicle) cost a lot of money and often have other commitments).

theoretically your centre will have a trials recorder who gets sent all trials results. If i recall correctly the procedure is that you have to win so many (3?) novice awards to made up to enter. unlike MX there is no national grading scheme so it may vary from locality to locality and the standards and classes also vary

what he said

its a democracy and your all entitled to your views....

fixed

we ask at all our meetings (MX, enduro, & trials) put it this way, we sent another MX rider to hospital at our April MX (not unusual event in MX) and in the ambulance he decided to change his name. it appears that the guy was an impostor to someone who had signed on and retired during the day! its one thing to not have a licence but have paid to ride (because you have covered some legal bases by paying to ride) but its altogether another not to have a entered a meeting at all (ie filled in some paperwork somewhere) in the case above we're banning the impostor from all our events, chasing the guy who retired and thinking about getting a national ban out on the guy....

not a lot if any practice sties in the southeast (kent, sussex, surrey) but there is always a trials on (one or two every sunday) some local clubs (with websites); eastbourne - http://www.peacharno.co.uk/EDMCC.htm horsham riders - http://www.hrc1.org/ worthing - http://www.worthingtrialsclub.com/ there are many more clubs in our part of the world, check out these for some phone numbers, etc; south coast group - http://ds.dial.pipex.com/merlinbooks/scg/scg.html south eastern centre acu - http://www.southeasttrialscombine.org.uk/

we had a big issue in the MX world a few years ago when two expert rated solo riders who had become paralysed from the waste down entered and competed the Weston beach race by falsifying their day licence application form (or something...). i think it prompted a review of how it should be handled in future. the problem is, they are often very complement riders, but quads do crash seriously, but also these riders have "issues" getting out. trials on the other hand has many good disability examples, with people like Ian Allaway (blind) as a sidecar passenger in my centre, and several amputees. in theory i think if you sat down the ACU's insurers and medical people something could be thrashed out, probably on a case by case basis, but its incredibly difficult

even if you expand Andy's season to all 52 weekends, plus bank holidays, and a few Wednesday evenings in the summer, there are far too many events on not to clash with something somewhere the idea that some people put about (or at least one might infer form your post) is that we should clear the decks of events (at least in trials) on the same day as the world round. However is patently obvious that a) the sport is too big and busy other events were more important to avoid (eg other youth series) c) there could be a plethora of local factors (local events, land restrictions, other activities the club is doing, etc) that make it impossible to avoid a clash. my club tried running a trial pitched at experts and youth A for a few years but we just couldn't avoid clashing with some event somewhere whatever date we picked

presumably using the new(ish) insurance database the ACU's insurers have set you could get some of this data (ie permits issues for certain dates, number of riders who rode, etc) the ACU (or was it LARA) did a survey on the 2nd weekend of march a few years back when there was talk of changing the 14/28 day rule (general permitted development order) and the results (of all motorcyclesport) were very interesting in how many thousands were riding/attending

what a topic! on the original point, i get very cynical and tend to end up going down the AMCA MX line. they have a set formula of something like for ever 40 members the club must put on one MX. they then create new clubs as more people join. they then have groups that expand, contract and move. they seam to exercise a lot of control over what their riders can and can't do and there appear to be a lot of people "miffed" about their system but it does deliver lots of events staffed with volunteers. we do a similar sort of thing on a smaller scale for our local trials combine of about 10 clubs in north Kent. of the 10 rounds, you can't ride your own clubs one but have to observe, thus getting to ride the next 9 meetings, with one event per month. on Atom Ant's points, specifically on cost there has been a lot of debate up at the ACU about the "problem" of costs and for MX and Enduro they have devised a cut price alternative insurance scheme (3 option cheap as chips, half way house and current/traditional level). however they reckon they can't make it any cheaper for trials. your figures of 80 riders making

its seams very tricky but i hesitate to comment because Scottish law is very different especially in the rights of way arena. for England and wales, landowners of land which has been designated right to roam, can apply to close it for a variety of reason. since our land isn't included I've never researched the options and the application process. I'm highly suspicious of the bit about "anyone" objecting though. If i recall correctly it was specifically worded to allow grouse hunting and stuff like that to continue by closing the vast areas of land through this process. try LARA ... ???

I dont understand it either.I also thought all you needed was a bit of land with the owners permission.The thing that bugs me about this particular venue is that not many people used it.I`ve never seen more than 5 bikes up there(exept when a trial is on),but theres always sombody who moans about noise and ruins it for every body. call me thick but your only aloud to use a bit of land for 14/28 days (outside national parks) without planning permission (don't get me started on all the other legal niceties one should fulfil)

we've got money out of the lottery (sports side of things) for some motocross about 5 years ago. but it require a huge amount of form filling, and BS speaking to certain requirements. from what we hear from our people we have in the regional sports councils there is no money for new sports until after 2012