rabie

the national CofC (Trials & Enduro) i sat recently (last year IIRC) had a great section on risk assessment, including many model forms of varying complexity (including one with a matrix like above). IMHO doing one is "good practise" on our part for when something goes wrong, and you need to be prepared, as incidents do happen. overthehill - having been to Rugby for National Council on Saturday, there is a guy form the environmental committee who has written a risk assessment for major events (ie big crowds, rather than the motorcylcesport side of it), as some club have been asked by local councils to produce one. Those of us in the business of dealing with serious crowds (the benchmark of 3,000+ was given) really do need to be on the ball with this one (or someone will change the law and enforce the "purple book" on us)

i cought italy at 5am last tuesday/wednesday night on five (not CH4)

marvellous, i can see myself watching twice, as well as my dad and cousin riding on my sidecar

exactly! on the point of nationwide (ie pan ACU) standardisation, i really think the idea is a nice (on paper) but in practise it would be impossible to implement. there are 20 centres (plus Scotland and the non Territorials) and each one has its own idea, which they undoubtedly jealously guard and think is correct and best. Any attempt to impose a nationwide diktat on this matter would undoubtedly see some sort of revolt (similar to the helmets saga) leading to clubs saying **** this and going AMCA (where I'm sure they have the same problem!). There isn't even a practical way to sit all trials clubs in the country down at a conference somewhere to debate the concept.

in LDT's this is the real toughy when setting sections out. especially as your catering for riders ranging form enduro riders on 525 KTMs which are far too high, high geared, etc and the riders have not rials experience all the way through to expert trials riders on Scorpa long rides. fundamentally the flaw often is where the section aren't clear enough for the riders as the people setting it out often forget the riders have limited trials skills and no sight at all of the section (thus some very simple sections are very effective and fun in LDTs).

did we ever establish that this site has or does not have planning permission for usage ??? ie under planning law anything beyond the "general permitted development order" (aka 14/28 day rule)

there have been standard replies from all lib dems MPs and (a different one obviously) from the Tories

LDT riders tend to be spread out, with many coming from an enduro backgorund inhabiting enduro type forums likes rides.org.uk and the TBM forum as well as several regional sites rabie - from the Sidcup Club (running two LDTs this year )

ask in the vintage forum over at mxtrax.co.uk

Sidcup & DMCC's Canada Heights, i was defintly there when Spud was ridding that section, i think it was our combine (NKTC) trial on the 1st sunday of November 2006 and yes its very sandy, especailly that section

he brought one of a major newspapers (the Telegraph), brought his title (well not quite) and ingratiated himself with the Tory party for most of the 1990s before falling into disgrace. IIRC he also owned a major Israeli paper and several North American papers.

we've speant (burnt IMHO) a lot of money with PR companies in the past on a variety of issues. i think we're better off spending the money on somehting else...

the ACU ran a seminar with some top sports lawyers from Southampton and some accountants from somewhere about 4 years ago now (i met some of the Bradford lads IIRC). basically put they raised the point that most motorcycles clubs as they now stand are "unincorporated associations" and thus lack corporate identity. thus they don't exist in law. to hold land, etc they need trustees, etc. they were really laying it down that this was bad and that some form of incorporation was desired, and some very simple limited company procedures could be followed, and this was necessary for even the smallest trials club. as one of the biggest off road clubs in the ACU we promptly went away and did a lot of digging on the matter and we will hopefully have it all resolved by our AGM in April (we had some complex issues with our land being held by trustees, etc). The most pertinent fear that stuck in my mind was that if they sued us to high heaven (eg especially in the wake of the infamous Matchams saga), the club committee members could be liable and most of the committee didn't like the idea of losing their houses. so as John Collins says, get in touch with Gary Thompson at the office, and he'll give you all the details

well thats great if your fully road legal, but all you can do is ride on the road. you can't ride on private land, or any other right of way (footpath byway, etc) - beacsue of the other points

that is the $64,000 question

in MX various devices have been tried. there is a huge fire risk from straw bale walls but they work. IMHO for trials the noise is a lot diffrent (we use straw blae walls in MX to shield the start line - ie 40 odd 450cc 4T mx bikes on full chat). i have to say most people can't hear normal trials bikes so noise isn't an issue

assuming the land isn't an SSSI or national park then you need planning permission for more than 28 days of trials a year (14 if your local planning authority interprits trials as motorcylce racing) the DEFRA issue would be if the farmer had submitted the land you do trials on for SPS supbsidy - now the argument going aorund was that you wouldn't really submit a pile of rocks for subsidy as they are ineligable in the first place, but some confusion arises over the grass you ride over to get there, etc

c'est moi (and my grandfather too) anyway, any help in any capacity is really apreciated

sorry you misunderstand my 3rd point, i sit back and look across 3 disciplines of motorcycle sport, and "the internet" (for want of a better phrase) is handled differently within these 3 broad catchment areas. there are pros and cons to each, and IMHO Andy had hit the nail on the head with most of them (there is always room for improvement though). in one way I'm saying why do i have to pay for trials, but not any other. On another level I'm crying out for the halcyon days (before my time even) when MCN covered every sport and was the one stop shop for everything, hell even TMX fails in many respects to cover 3 off road sports....

did we not all say setting up a wiki for this would be a good idea?

IIRC jesse ventura was a govonor in Wisconsion or Minnesota (sorta nearish), and Springer was a Mayor somewhere (but not a real big city like Chicargo)

Its a very valid question for OTF to ask, as the ACU is the biggest governing / sanctioning body in the UK for motorcycling and we should have people on top of this (i presume Dave Luscombe is doing something somewhere) - the ACU should be in the best position to lobby the government i was at the last Centre Chairman and Secretaries meeting and this didn't come up, i will ask about (or John might reply first) to see if it has come up at a recent directors meeting an archive of past director's meetings can be found here - http://www.nktc.org.uk/nktc_&_acu_meet...rules_menu.html

to jump to Spud's defence let me ask a very blunt and awkward question does this bit of land have any planning permission to allow more usages beyond the 14/28 day rule (the General Permitted Development Order) ???

I think you will find that the Dunblane tragedy brought about the changes in the gun law perhaps you should go on that forum and ask what they think. Weren't the gun laws changed after a judicial review? I don't recall a judicial review but the fundamental point is that a standard hysterical reaction to a problem is to "ban it", and see the true problem continue and the legitimate law abiding folk get penalised. it was part of great populist bandwagon the that new labour rode into office with - leaving our Olympic shooting team to have to train outside the counutry.... Name me one proposed legislation that won any election, ever? Red tape is definitely not strangling business this is repeated tabloid hype, the economy is at its strongest for a long time, ever? its not a specific election, although if you want we could discus each election in turn and argue weather it was considered a specific referendum on that piece of legislation - constitutional theory say you should hold a general election of divisive constitutional non manifesto issues (the election of 1910 springs to mind) fundamentally i highlight the fact that each MP needs to persuade their constituent, each party its supports, etc that they are doing concrete action, and proposing private members bills, early day motions, etc are prime ways of doing this in the UK. the system fundamentally encourages bad legislation. this is because the media cycle encourages this, and the lesson the politicians have learnt from this is that they need to create positive media message each day to keep the news cycle on their side (and conversely they "bury bad news" when something else is on the headlines or "take out the trash" on friday night at once to flood the news shows and less read papers on Saturday) there are a variety of statics demonstrating how competitiveness has decreased (uk vs other nations) since 1997, and while the government does have a red tape task force very good point, it very easy to criticise and not offer your own alternative polices in place for my sins i am somewhat involved in politics but don't consider myself a) crazy enough and politicised to one specific political party - to get involved my own thoughts are thus :- use the existing legislation to tackle the problem. the are plenty of laws that can address the problem. there is perhaps scope for tidying up existing legislation, but this problem should be farmed out to the lords, or the law society rather than some backbenchers with an agenda and political points to be gained. beyond law enforcement the current work to update government planning regulations, mandating councils to statutory provide for off road motorsport in their locals plans like they have to for football, athletics, swimming, etc is necessary. investigate is there scope within EU law to find a way of under trading standards of restricting minibike sales - IMHO its their low price and ease of sale that has seen the current epidemic created, however there is scope for legitimate use probably resulting in this being a dead end (if not illegal anyway under EU law)

back to the original question a) I'm a tight fisted student I'm a very busy organiser, and i some ways feel that i already give enough to the sport (unpaid) c) no other off road motorsport's related sites ask me for money (eg Adrenalintrip.net, TBM, etc) - (ok sidecarcross does) thats not to say that this isn't a very worthy cause that does deserve your support. IMHO the trials industry should be paying for this via advertisements and/or we should (as riders) get our governing body to support / fund/ host / whatever .... might cough up when i get a real job ....