rabie

sorry I've written a long (ish) reply on another thread here which was ACU bashing and a few days ago i wrote a large essay on ACU bashing on an MX forum - I'm a little cheesed off and at the end of my tether - i assumed to much that invest meant the ACU had millions to spend on every little whim as some people may/do imagine it does - i apologise it has been asked many a time and most recently earlier this year why Supercross has failed to take off in the UK. MX is obviously (well it thinks it is) bigger than trials and has more companies (ie sponsors) involved, etc, etc - yet at best a few arenas can be filled at great expense, with lots of crap racing. when a true stadium is used it either rains and becomes a mud bath or the crowd doesn't turn up to make it viable. i think the best they got in the 70,000 seater millennium stadium in Cardiff was 10,000 - its not worth it. speaking from a major clubs point of view with a large and extensive background in event promotion there has to be an economical business case for it. the promoter would have to hire an arena, build the sections and dismantle at speed. you would then have to be pretty sure you can get a crowd. Hawkstone and Sheffield are the only two real event in trials where the crowd has to pay - it would take a brave promoter to try a third event much less a series although the idea has much merit and possibility

most unfindable site on the web - did a few googles before i came here and foudn this thread by chance (its not even on the TC links page!)

i like it organised but there are many to do lists and stuff awaiting my attention cluttering the places - wopps! photos of our clubs bit of land at our round of the british mx champs way back in 2001

im officiating in a variety of capacities come on everoyne its Everts and Carmichael's (sp) last year and its our (europe) first sight of Stewart (well since the 85s)

I really doubt the ACU pay for 7 people to go to each GP, with heir other half's and pay for them to wined and dined. Yes for reasons lost way back in time, the ACU sends a jury delegate to every GP (in MX, Trials, enduros, etc). IMHO in an era of "pros", with "teams" and as everyone says enough hangers on to fill a tour bus is this really necessary ??? (that is the real question). BUT even then it is still one person (and a spouse sometimes who i believe has to pay their way). But the last bit really demonstrates the issue - you don't know where your money goes so you see it as being mishandled / wasted. In my ***Humble *** opinion they collect very very little money off you all, which by the time they have paid for what you already get - lobbying, Des nations teams, ACU academy and 1 (in effect) secretary (there is probably more and this is a far from definitive list) - there is probably sweet FA left over. i have to strongly disagree here. while other federation have state support and member support to burn money by "helping" the youth riders become top level riders, we in the UK don't have the state support and more importantly i passionately don't believe you have the support of the membership to burn money on helping youths. IMHO the academy idea is a load of b****, and a waste of our money. IMHO the fundamental goal should be enabling everyone to enjoy our sport (ie bums on seats), not helping an elite few. in practise this should translate into a land fund explicitly to enable land purchases, a legal defence fund to fight the litigation and an "anti anti's" fund to fight the ramblers and tree huggers and their legislation they keep bringing out to stop our sport (ie get some lobbiest and lawyers so we can't fight the ramblers). the average club level riders doesn't IMHO really care to much about the WTC, and who might win it in 20 years time - its a complete waste of money. thats not to say if the lottery or some company/millionaire was prepared to offer us money for youth trainging we should refuse but IMHO the majority of the membership out there doesn't support it. i don't see how we can have one rule. some riders want to bunny hop, some riders want non stop, and some want to be able to "stop with penalties". whether the observers are marking the "stops" right is another ball game (i did upset a lot of people when i did this when i observed a centre trial!!!). fundamentally we should be a "broad church" capable of coping and accepting diversity so we are unified for when we need to fight the "anit's". by being dictatorial and imposing one system you will lead to "UDI's" and people will **** off an do AMCA, OPRA, etc and leave us divided when the anti's come for us (next?). we lost around a fifth of our centre to the AMCA over wearing helmets FFS. you impose one rule you'll lose more (either the pre65s or modern bikes, etc) - just look at the divisions that stretch across MX (approx 6 different governing bodies, etc) ...... as above, IMHO b******. can't sell the idea to the majority to secure funding bearing in mind our scarce resources you may be right in section design but section design is solely down to the promoting clubs, the ACU has sweet FA to do with it. if you are referring to the current ACU insurance policy, it does have limited personal accident (in addition to public liability and third party) cover. my understanding is it will help you in the event of death, loss of limb, and 4 weeks+ in hospital. IMHO thats not great thats why I've got CICA insurance (BTW I'm the crappiest infrequent riders our there, with no money as I'm a student). IMHO everyone should have the CICA policy especially at that level where that sort of risk is being taken. we ditched the ACU equivalent of the CICA cover (ie personal accident) because riders were taking the p*** and costs were spiralling out of control. we then did opt in for one year, but only 10 people (or so) took it up (nationwide across all sports). so its gone. estimates go that we would have to add 50% to entry fees to continue it. now this is whole other debate but if your riding a sport where this could happen on any sort of regular basis you should have personal accident insurance! as for you opinions of where the ACU money does do - well see above sure why not - thats up to the FIM, the WTC organisers and its promoters, etc, etc - IMHO the ACU very little influence real or perceived in this matter. as an organiser of several major events across 3 sports i laugh in pity at anyone trying to put on a British trials championship round - there is no way you can break even (IMHO). motorsport works (ie breaks even) one of 3 ways; 1) entry fees cover the costs - ie most trials 2) spectator admission covers the costs - ie Sheffield and Hawkstone 3) sponsors/state aid - eg northern Ireland WTC and IWTC thus a free to watch trial with minimal sponsorship and no state aid with only 40 odd riders really IMHO can't work - until this fundamental piece of logic is resolved i don't understand how British trials championship can work rabie (aka Jamie Clarke, sh*tstirer of the south, Sidcup & DMCC, SEC ACU, etc, etc, Pinhard Prize winner, can't ride out of sight on a dark night)

as above, if there was a business case for it then it would probably have already been done. Northern Ireland reeives state aid, thus making hawkstone and shefield the only private promotions - and while they may be "packed" does that still equate to a business case for running a second one. as to why the ACU aren't supporting this idea - WTF do you think the ACU are ??? Why should my (average joe public trials rider) money (If the T&E committee had any spare) be wasted on proping up a comercial event for top riders who get paid, etc, etc ..................

Thames's web precence is unoffcially at this site http://www.wyattweb.co.uk/trials/thames/index.html something may end up in the TSM or elsewhere latter ....

i have to agree, in a Tony Blair style "Communication, communication, communication" - really does work

Question for John Collins i think ..... ???

you cant charge admission to public to watch youths perform - thats why all youth MX is free the watch don't know why the prize money thing is there though ......... (child abuse maybe ?) the problem is how big is the prize money you're proposing ??? there is a debate on the MX forum (MXTrax) over prize money and some of the numbers we give out are tiny and not worth picking up, especially in relation to the entry fee. on the other hand some events have some cracking trophy's that have been going for years that are worth a fair few bob!!! - would be a shame to loose them (although maybe not some of the cheap tacky trophy's that are out there)

well i supose they are more expensive and further afield compared to the normal trial but compared to MX they are cheap and value for money. trials riders seam to be able to handle the really technical stuff well (and amke up lots of ground on the ex MX'ers). depends on the event's going - some are opena nd fast where the mx boys do well, others are tight and nagery where trials boys excell.

its good fun, so why not do enduros (or anything else) - trials riders seam to be doing quiete well in the SEEC ...

but thats how the AMCA MX system operates, meaning to ride club level MX in the midlands, east midlands, north west and parts of Yorkshire you have to play their game alternatively some schoolboy MX clubs run a "no marshal, no ride" rule - every person who enters the event has to bring a marshal! now my club for centre MX's operates a 1 in 4/5 ballot system whereby the riders have to provide one marshal (for half a day) for one of our 4/5 centre meetings

an age old problem, one to which there are few easy solutions without making significant sacrifices a) raise entry fees and pay people - but can you find X observers willing to work on a Sunday for X sum of money ..... do like the AMCA MX's - for every so many members a club must put on a meeting. riders in each area can't ride elsewhere without very special permission (ie you force the riders to work). thus even a billy no mates can ride because he has to give up his ride for one of his own clubs events, but gets to ride every other time and every other rider in the series has to do the same I'm not sure either system can work in reality because the trade offs are considered to unpalatable

as said above it varies dramatically from club to club within a centre and even more across the country South east is generally yellow - wobbler, pre 65 (particularly rigid and sidecar), sidecar, twinshock (sometimes, can be up to blue) youth D red - novice, youth C (and the some to all the above) blue - inter, youth B white - expert, youth A but this is no hard and fast rule. the yellow route isn't at many trials. most are just red, blue and white. some are solo only, changing the nature the the yellow/red route, other expect only modern bikes to enter so will feature different obstacles/route style accordingly class names like clubmen, sportsman, over 50, etc will often appear as well making it very confusing (at best lol!)

the idea itself is great, especially compared to other alternatives forms of tracking "lost" bikes if you only have

its the return of crockard ..... now lets see if he can mantian this form (way back in the day he was 2nd in the 250cc world champs)

most cheap digitals allow you to prefocus so it cuts lag which is inherent with normal digitals they also have a sports mode that helps with moving bikes it just take some experimentation to learn to use just get a highish number of megapixles, quiet a bit of ***optical*** zoom (digital zoom is BS!) and a decent memory card or two (so you can take loads of photos and not worry about crap shots)

i would recommend strongly you have the appropriate insurance for running a practise ground after a long list of court cases involving MX practise tracks the landowner, event organiser and rider all need insurance, most notable 3rd party (riders) and public liability (between organiser and landowner) contact "marsh" (out of Tunbridge wells) or "bowing's" (old ACU insurers) to see what they can do. problem with a trials practise ground as a commercial enterprise i bet the Health and Safety at work act kicks in as well....... even if you run a bouncy castle you need public liability (court case at a mx meeting, the boucey castle didn't have it, organisers got screwed)

but that place is miles away and rocks don't exist down souf ...... we have to improvise (with chalk, mud, logs and roots) rocks are a positively foreign concept

south east is typically 3 routes (red, blue white) and 3 *main* classes red - novice, youth c, pre 67 A through D, twinshock, sidecar (modern and pre 67) blue - inter, youth B white - expert, youth A we sometimes have a yellow route (easier than red) for wobblers, youth d and / or pre 67 (esp rigids and sidecars) some trials are just for novices and wobblers, others are for just modern bike s(so the red route can change from a pre65 chair do'able to hard for a modern novice depending upon the event) i know some clubs run classes such as "clubman" and "over 40" or "50" but i fail to recall what route they are on we currently have the problem of several red route rider who are older gents who are on modern bikes but have enough wins/points/whatever to go inter but the are old enough not to want to, so a currently riding on a no award basis, which is in a way unfair on themselves and others

for us South Easterns ists great as it has regs for two of our 3 neighbours IMHO its less relevent for trials but vital for Grass Track, MX and Enduros, trials riders tend not to travel (some get the arseake going to the other end of the centre, let along the next centre) its also far to difficult to keep posting regs out to people who don't get TSM, so we also put our online

generally speaking the land part is easy we want the land no one else does, ie rocks, woods, etc the problem is panning law in england and wales you are under the town and country planning act (and other legislation) which restrict you to 14 noisy usages (trails can be interpreted to be non noisy and 28 usages). you also can't technically import stuff like logs, rocks, etc to get more usages and build stuff like car parks, etc you need planning permission that is very onerous but not impossible if you can phrase it right and speak the right BS is would recommend a real long look at the library on the LARA website - http://www.laragb.org/

that not quiet what I'm getting at - last time i looked, the centre calender is packed, with at least one event every weekend, often there are two on the same day to give up three dates would upset 3 clubs to some extent i was merely using the remembrance Sunday and trials helmets issues as examples of ACU top down diktats that aren't universally liked by the grass routes .... I'm not moaning at the idea of a charity trial or the cause in question here as such, but the act of forcing as suggested above will be interpreted poorly by some/many which is an undesirable goal