rabie

my two pence worth as John Collins has said, we currently have a wide diversity of systems and therefore a move to one won't happen some people, for what ever reason, want to non stop (TSR 22 and i as Atom Ant says there is an equal cases for allowing stopping with penalties (TSR 22 A). obviously there is scope for other methods to be invented (call them c, d, e, etc) so you can do FIM if you want to, or do an egg carrying contest, etc, etc (and obviously time and observation events still run under some code ???). if you stop people doing it, as Atom Ant says "Whats stopping me from making my own rules for a club trial?", by imposing one national system then they will just sod off and form an AMCA or ORPA club, which defeats the point of it. at the end of the day its up to you, in your the clubs, centres, and nationally do decide what method is appropriate for that event / championship. our strength lies in being able to accommodate all! on another note.... Elvis's post was good and has merit. firstly on the "four" idea - why not .... but on the "ten" being the old "five" as in a "non attempt" i say no, as there is still nothing to stop someone just going in the section and turning round (a five), when the person who has had the courtesy to ask is now going to get a ten ....... rabie

well technically there is probably a confidentiality agreement between ACU and Appeyard's (i know in MX we have the same between our sponsors) i imagine (complete guess) it's sub

the problem between 1,2,3 dabs and 3 (millipede) is perhaps one of not enough classes/routes so that rider that is getting that is not good enough for that route when i first learnt to wobble i could do most novice routes for 3's but clean the wobbler almost the whole time. its only after a few more rides that i can't start to (vaguely) compete on the novice route again it also depends on the section layout - if you are needing to do 3 strategic dabs then perhaps the section is too long/ that route is too difficult for that class some trials at some venues set out a certain way (with certain weather) will be high scoring - now is this good or bad, especially compared to a trial that is too easy and its won by the person who avoided making a silly mistake rabie

must be grim up north rabie

some on spud plank's South Eastern Centre site http://www.trialsinfo.com/ i've got sitting on my hard disk of our sidecar trial but haven't got around to learning about video compression yet (its a minute long and 15megs) rabie

Ok for the UK (I assume you're in the UK) depending upon where you are, there are different local events but there are in the main 3 types Hare and Hound (H&H) - basically a large mx, do as many laps as possible in a timeframe (say 3hours). typically this is less taxing on the brain, favoured by mx'ers. it can be by class, it can be timed by electronics. proper big time card enduros - this is the real McCoy. a huge course (say 10 miles plus) with different parts that you have time to complete it in. the idea being is you pace yourself - some parts you don't need to go balls out, others are balls out (and you incur penalty points). you have to stop in checks at exactly the right time (not too early or late). you also have various special tests of speed - which a top level can include a grass/cross country test, a mx test and an extreme test (where trials skills can come into play). you find these in proper places like Wales, Scotland, tut north, etc short course enduros - us poor deprived southern fairies invented these to give us practice of time cards enduros. its more complex as you have to do several laps within each session (laps can be as a short as 3.5 miles). with reference to trials, the mx rider can be a sheep and follow the line already made by the trials riders can make up time by being able to go round bottlenecks/are able to tackle the harder obstacles better personally i really like enduros, a real challenging event. don't go straight out and buy a new bike without doing your research first. mx bikes aren't best suited and will need adapting to comply (but sometimes they are allowed). down south where we ride a lot of nagery forestry commission/mod forest we all ride sub 300cc two strokes (as exemplified by the Breckland and John Banks nationals) while if your in proper open enduro country big fourstroke (KTMs mainly) are best suited also check out http://www.enduronews.com/ http://www.endurouk.com/ http://www.biker.force9.co.uk/ http://www.adrenalintrip.net/ (and go to the enduro forum) rabie

for a start don't all go out and s*** yourselves over this calm down and have a cuppa tea (or ) firstly many clubs/organisers have been doing this for some time - forestry and MOD land has needed a risk assessment for some time as the many professionals in this field have already explained the whole idea of what "risks" are, is very much in the eye of the beholder. i wouldn't necessarily say the CofC has to the the risk assessment themselves, the secretary of the meeting or someone else may be better placed to do it - but generally the CofC is "god" / buck stops here - so they will have to sign off on it. honestly don't make too much of a fuss about as MOD and forestry events have been doing them for some time as for the quote from dan i would say this first - if the permitting issuing authority (rugby, your centre, SACU, etc) has given you the permit you permission to run the event. at the end of the day risk assessment will be "good practise" just like having a steward and a licenced clerk of the courseon the other hand we in mx and enduro haven't been "forced" (as far as i know) by Rugby/centre/and committee to produce one although i know the track racing committee has had a grass track risk assessment floating about for some years now on a final point its very much down to your very specific local situation - i know some venues have to have one because of a zealous local authority regularly inspects them for HSE issues (eg Hawkstone park, and others) and as I've already mentioned if you hire forestry/MOD you do one anyway. we've even had to make one up for the police who visit our British championship round - they weren't concerned what was in it, just that you've done one. again if anyone's got a problem/issue with this please contact someone up the chain of command (eg your centre, the T&E committee, the trials desk at Rugby, etc) don't go cancelling events in a blind panic rabie

a) an awful lot of clubs organise events for the Saturday (and traditionally do so) - we (Sidcup) did a big closed to club, Witley run a big Centre trial, etc another huge number of clubs, centres, etc hold AGMs, etc on this "spare" date c) as for not doing anything out of respect or we should do something and donate profits to charity - speaking to various veterans and others the view is divided, but with the "loss" of veterans form the mass participation conflicts WW1 & WW2 its going to be more difficult to maintain the doing nothing line d) Hook woods was an ORPA event, and several other OPRA events were on. ORPA is the promotions vehicle pioneered by Tony Ford and the late Reg Slack that is utilised by numerous commercial promoters (and a few proper clubs), and in the age of increased commercial promotions of motorsport events it is to be expected. now trails in normally beyond the hope of making money for commercial operators (with perhaps the exception of the world round) but by not allowing charity events (which the Hook Woods event was) have "we" (ACU ***AND*** the AMCA) forced people to go down the ORPA route ???? its a difficult and controversial but nether the less important debate to be had - and one to which i don't see an answer ....... rabie

of all the various anti theft systems out there its the most comprehensive of the lot got them on all our modern and going bikes rabie

i get emails form some couple who run trials holidays some where like the algarve (i think i do) rabie

some very good questions which are slightly difficult to answer first of all the world rounds use one system of marking, we in the UK then alternate between two other different systems (the differences are very subtle but important and make a world of difference) the standard system world wide is 0,1,2,3,5 and 10 as you say 10 is extremely rare - but only happens if you miss a section. so what most riders do if they don't like to look of a section (too hard, or not enough time left in a time limited trial) they ride in the "begins" and turn around - ie getting a five 5 is essentially a DNF for the reasons you list (and more) "faults" is an interesting word but thats basically it, you can get none (a clean or zero), one, two or three. if you get more than three it still counts as a three - ie you can millipede your way through a section for a three rather than a five (if you don't breach some very technical rules) the other areas you highlight are were the confusion lies / and or the ability of the observer(s) seeing the event (but the TV camera may have). in our rules technically you fault (or it could be 5 / DNF) if any part of the bike rests on the ground (ie bash plate) as for backward motion - this stems from way back in the day when you literary could be stopping at all (due to the bikes), so trials is meant to be non stop. however some very clever guy (someone will name him for me) developed the modern trick style of riding (bunny hoping, etc), but this stops forward motion. hence anther set of rules was created to either allows for this type of very skillful riding and/or to allow it but penalise you for doing it (ie a fault for stopping forward motion). On all counts going back wards is verboten but in practise how you tell this, and the benefit of hindsight / a DVD allows a much different interpretation of the result to be seen hope that answers your question to an extent and i expect others to come in and correct / modify my answer as its actually quiet a complex topic and difficult and challenging to simplify (reminds me of the offside rule in football) rabie

ooooooo !!!!!! rabie

for our part of the world (well country) we tend to use cards stapled to trees, etc white - expert blue - inter red - novice yellow - wobbler (not always run) depends on the trial what route is run .... see you about rabie

nah it look like my dad will be the novice on my bike as I'll be up here working --> may change by then (if i was free it would be a good laugh - or millipede run!!!) as for the others i assume so but i can't actually remember ..... rabie

our British bike trial is the first Sunday of December the NKTC team trial is the second Sunday of December at (IIRC) Bexleyheath's new bit of land down near hastings rabie

if you want to do both you can proable get away with a BETA alp or something on a novice/pre65 route but toher than that it might get mighty uncomferatable on any spercific trails bike (even with added seat/tanks) for green laneing ....... rabie

cross reff with this thread http://www.trialscentral.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=5923 rabie

don't worry - I'm just stirring about the new permits system which *should* be much simpler just not everyone's got their head around it rabie

i was hidden out at section 10 (far hill) in the rain glad you had a good day spud was there (check out trialsinfo.com for photos and videos) results will be up soon rabie

Quick question ? with the changes to the permit system what is the point (other than for information purposes) of listing "non-championship" rounds. as (as i understand it) under the new system most events will be "open" and in effect non-championship nationals unless stated otherwise (eg closed to club, closed to centre, etc ???) what I'm getting at in a way is there are some events that are on that are now in effect non championship nationals that might need to be listed on a "master list" like this ...... it would also be helpful if *somehow* the non championship rounds could be identified on the main list ... ??? rabie

sorry appears Bob Mullins got them first National & International Trials fixtures (word doc) National & International Enduro fixtures (word doc) rabie

ROFLOL !!! rabie

rabie

and Spud is a good inter round these parts Sod the rocks! You know what beer is! Errr...sorry bad argument....forget that <{POST_SNAPBACK}> mmm beer rabie (student!)

Results are on the club website there are more photos on Coulbert.co.uk sounds like everyone had a good time! great videos spud rabie