hondars250

Well it seems to me you have double standards, and blowing hot and cold??So what your saying is that 2 riders, same ability are on the same marks dropped and one of them has domino and the other amal levers and they both fall off and damage there levers, and the amal rider gets more marks for being late than the domino rider, and that's fair. I know it's a bit of an exreme example but it could happen, do you think Mr amal levers would be happy chap (no) So as a few of you have said it's just about the 5 riders excluded, so is it just speculation again on why they were excluded, lets have some facts about the reasons behind why they were excluded then it might be worth a discussion? but to guess and make things up surely thats wrong. We might even find out one of them turned with a gas gas front end !!!! but I doubt it, lets just wait and get facts not fiction. And yes Yorkshire classic have got it right, I'm a member of that club and it's great to ride with them, if you think they are so good, you should have taken a leaf out their book 2 routes then classes to match easy for everyone.

Hi davetom Good comments, and yes Alan is a nice chap but I didn't buy the frame for that reason, like you I'm a novice rider but wanted to build the best bike I could within my budget, and I'm sure you would be able to enter if you decided to build a bike like one of the winners, when I rode, Steve Saunders won and I would not have liked to have riden his bike, I finished 59th on my James and I'm sure it would have been far worse than that riding on his bike, and I rode round with him on the 2nd day so seen it in action. I agree this is a place for discussion on pre65 but not a place to slag off particular trials just because they don't fit into certain peoples beliefs of what pre65 is. But joking aside with OTF if we look seriously at what is pre65 how far do we take it? So can OTF answer these questions, and lets for arguements sake leave engines and frames out for a moment, the questions are what was available in pre65. 1. IRC tyres 2. Renthal handle bars the modern ones we all use 3. Brake linings now used 4 Domino throttle 5. Domino levers 6. Gas Gas bash plates modified to fit 7. Honda kick starts 8. Beta gear levers I could go on and on I don't know all the answers, but I doubt any of these are pre65. What irritates me is why do certain people pick on one trial year after year and won't let it go? This is like the arguement over originality, you could argue that a bike has lost it's originality when you change it's tyre or brakes? Some engines have Kawasaki clutches fitted but because we cannot see them is it right? I believe if a club has it's rules we should respect them and if we don't agree with them then don't ride with that club, but don't ridicule them year after year. I don't slag Peak Classic off because I don't agree with the classes there trickshox, brit bike etc etc I go and enter the class I think I should be in and ride to enjoy it and what ever class I'm in I try to compete against everyone. Hope that explains some of the banter which has gone on here And for OTFs info my name is Paul Edwards and if he mentions me to Pete Carson, Pete will explain more.

Hola Sr Javier Very well said, I think Mr Beswick has been on the Blue Nun again, you should really suggest a very nice Spanish wine, ho ho not long until Christmas!!!

Hi monty-jonThanks and yes the club should be congratulated, I've even helped the year I did it and there's a hell of a lot of work goes into it and then the wingers get going, talk about being kicked when your down

HiBeing in the 20% is nothing to be proud of really is it? I'm quite open minded, but you seem to be tared with the same brush as OTF small minded and a basic trouble maker on here because it seems to be only you 2 causing problems, or should I say inventing them, as of yet I have not seen any hard evidence just speculation of general rubbish. Are you also sure 100% that the Armac frame you saw was actually an armac because I've altered cub frames and they have been mistaken for other peoples frames including Armac could this have been done in the 60s?? we will never know. It does not matter what's on your bench does it, because if you want to enter the Scottish PRE65 just do as I've already said look at what you've got/want to ride and if you answer yes to the questions, get it entered and best of luck to you and if you get in enjoy it for what it is, not what you want it to be.

OTFWell I think you must have had 2 or 3 glasses of the vino to many before replying Dutch courage eh!! and you have just confirmed that your not a wind up merchant? I don't really know what your rant is must be the vino talking?? But if it's the 5 riders being excluded so what they lied on the entry form tough, I would not have even let them ride! so what was it exactly exclude for or are you just having a stab in the dark trying to ruffle a few feathers. And yes I have been to your trials several times, next time I'll introduce myself and we will see if you can talk face to face but keep off the wine or what ever you drink just to keep it sensible. This must be eating away at you, you must try to chill a bit. If the riders who want to ride PRE65 in Scotland if they follow the rules set down there should be no issue at all, but if the decide to lie on the entry form that's their problem not mine or yours, and you will always get people who will have a little push to see how far or much they can get away with, it human nature. Got to go must get out more! ha ha

Hola Thanks Javier that's the man, it's a long time since my college days couldn't quite remember his name.

Hi danny b Well said absolutly spot on. Hope I didn't sound biiter just really angry that some people just keep nit picking all the time. I've just been told to read the girls allowed forum Sandra Gomez and that made my blood boil and it seems to be the same people all the time. I cannot remember who said 20% of the people cause 80% of the problems? I think it was Perito ( spelling ??) or he came up with the 80-20 theory, but it's true here??

Hi Woody As I said before I don't want to know any of the riders names as it does not bother me who rides or not and on what, because my view is that the top riders would beat most of us if we where on monos? and as for your adage I'm certianly not in any in crowd or I would not be speaking my mind on here. A good saying is "it's far easier to be critical than correct" and a lot of that goes on here. I feel sorry for the people like jon V8 having to read this, the best advice I can give is send an entry in, if you get a ride, go and enjoy one of the best trials in the UK, and when it's all over make your own mind up about the people who run it and ride it? Hi OTF Excuss me for being forward, but you must be a wind up merchant or a complete idiot. The things you say on here can be quite offensive, and you of all people should be aware of the work put in to run and organise a trial and then to be slagged off by the 3-4 moaners on here. Let me ask you a question do you know a 100% that the ballot is for 80 riders or less, I thought the only riders to not be in the ballot were last years winners? I don't think it's people wearing blinkers it's just people who don't bother to read something into something that's not there. It's easy to say " I'm not bother about light wieght frames etc etc BUT" also it seems easier for some people to discuss things, make opinions or make false statements looking at a computer screen and typing away without any consiquence but cannot speak face to face with anyone when at a trial. Sorry if I've offended you but unlike you I am willing to discuss these matters face to face and not hide behind a computer screen. What you've got to remember is that people see things differently, as for me when I did the Scottish 2 years ago, I seen it as a great trial with great people running it and riding in it, I'm not a pre65 guru so didn't notice any cheating etc and it leaves a bad taste when people like you seem to have a dig every year with the same old same old, very sad!

Hi Woody I can't really comment on your niggles because we don't know the who's and what's etc, but I'll take your word for it, but if it was me i would not let it eat away at me, because if they have done something wrong and got away with it good luck to them. But when they get caught they won't be surprised if they are excluded. Also if you don't care about the rules or the trial why are you getting so wound up, it is really simple as B40rt said PRE65 DESIGN. So to your second point a cub if I had a cub as you have discribed above I wouldn't have a problem entering it as long as the mods, frame swaps were available in 64 or before, simple enter the bike as long as no lies are told what's the problem. the only thing I can see is that if you were to use a cub engine in a cub frame then it would have to be a swan neck but if you changed the frame from a cub one then it should be ok again I'm getting bored now, simple enter the bike. The biggest problem is people reading things into it which are not there and creating problems when they should be keeping there mouths shut, riding and enjoying it! The last thing is, it can't be that bad because out of say 500 entries ish for 180 places their are only 3 or 4 complaining about it???

Hi B4rt You beat me to it !!!!

Hi Charlie Well the answer is in the question really, it has to be "pre65 design" therefore if the hubs are off Mr Whitton and are of pre65 design there's the answer, now if I put bultaco hubs in the wheels from 70s or 80s then I'm asking for trouble? and if your getting at originallity then that's another subject which can be discussed at great length another time! If your otter frame is a replica of the original then I would not feel guilty of putting 63 or what date it was originally manufactured on the entry form as long as your happy it's PRE65 DESIGN again it's simple really, tick the boxes and answer the questions it's not to difficult even I managed it? so no lying as long as it's pre65 design, if I'm not sure I will always ask someone in the know like Alan Whitton or any of the Yorkshire classic lads only because I'm relatively new to the trials scene ecspecially the pre65 one. Good luck with you entry.

Hi All I've read this with interest and also with a bit of disappointment, it sounds as if the bitching has started early?? by the regular crew of course!! Just to try and make the process simple, if I was going to enter the Scottish pre65. What would I do??? 1. I would see where I could get the regs, in my case I would down load them off the Yorkshire classic web site 2. Read them, so what do they say. 3 Frame pre65 design only, so my FB does meet this requirement( even tho it's a whitton) 4. Engine gearbox, yes ok it's a villiers. 5. carb, yes it's a MK1 so again ok so far? 6 Front forks yes ok norton sliders with 35mm internals 7. Wheels, fitted with tubeless rims with tubes fitted so ok 8. So to the entry form I can fill in all of the 8 boxes on the form in and feel happy I'm not going to get into trouble when I get to scrutineering if I get in. Like a few people have said what is the problem!!!! and if like tamdodds said, if you tell lies on the form you deserve to be excluded, and my view is that if you lie and get caught you should not allowed to ride in the trial again full stop. To me it's quite simple tick the boxes answer the questions truthfully and send your entry in and hope for the best and like Big John if I don't get in I will be there observing if they need any help. So hopefully all the moaning will stop but I doubt it some people must get a buzz from it " nowt as queer as folk"

Well here you go again off on another rant! I never mentioned any of the comments above. This is the problem here people trying to second guess what other poeple mean and getting it totally wrong. As for the ridrs who no long ride at Peak Classic none of them had trick bikes other than myself, they were always very well turned out and could be mistaken for being trick but are actually very standard and one in particular won the expert twinshock on several occasions and beat all the trick bikes. As I think Woody stated all the trick parts do not give much or any advantage so what's all fuss about. As for the rule not affecting 99% of the riders, I still cannot work that one out, I'm just glad I don't come on this forum often, only when I want cheering up!! I still hope you can turn it round because you have some really good venues and it would be a shame to loose the club. Any way by I've actually got a life and won't be appearing here again it's far to funny for me, I thought they would never dry!! Paul PS If you want a really good laugh check out Bondy on the Bultaco forum, now he is the funniest so far by a long shot.

Yes I would agree with both of you(daveD444 and Turbo) Reading this, it seems to me OTF has come full circle one minute against rule then making them for his club. He's saying that he made a rule that does not affect 99% of riders so what's the point of making it for 1% of his turnout 1% of 60-70 riders !!!!! dur. All I can say is that I know at least 6-7 riders that used to ride at OTFs trials now ride elsewhere myself included mainly because of his rantings last year about the Scottish pre 65 but also the rule changes and the change in the excellent atmosphere which has disappeared. All I hope is that it's not to late to turn things around? Paul