On the odd time that we have wet conditions here I find the front brake on the 4RT unaffected or even a bit better when wet, whereas the rear is fairly ordinary when wet but good when dry. I think I have Top Fun pads in the rear, what make do you real wet weather guys use?
No suggestions for the first part, my 4RT's have both stood for 4to 5 months out of season without any problem, I guess in the UK condensation could be a problem and maybe there are some remnants of water in the fuel? The Canadians add a small amount of methylated spirit to their fuel tanks in winter to absorb the moisture.
No tool kit is supplied with the bike, just a very comprehensive manual.
My first bike I didn't like the higher tickover and had it back at 1,100 rpm however as I adapted found it easier to start and more reliable around the 1,800 mark, there should be no reason not to increase it now.
I guess one question could be has it got the programmable throttle body fitted and if so the previous owner could have installed an unusual programme , although I would think this unlikely.
Carloline has a new website for parts ordering, I recently ordered engine parts and enjoyed the same prompt service that I have previously received, they were delivered here in Australia only 7 days after placing the order.
im wanting to check ma tappet mesurements to see if they are all set up rite can some one tell me what tapets are what? are the ones at the front of the bike the exhaust and the 2 at the rear the inlets?
Hi Mark, not trying to be smart but the question suggests that you haven't much experience in this area and the 4RT tappets are quite tricky to set up accurately due to their placement, even when used to doing the job. For the bike to run well they really do need to be set up just about spot on. If you have an experienced mate I would get a bit of help.
Standard gearing is 10 and 41, with the standard combination you do not need a half link, whereas the 10 and 43 needs a half link, at least whilst the chain is new.
Most riders seemed to find the 10/41 to high for most trials, although would probably be perfect for many of the no stop events.
What engine oil has been used and how often has it been changed?
Didi it get a new oil filter every oil change?
Thanks, Ralphy
Wasn't met to impress just put some numbers behind the speculation that I see on the site.
I had the bike for the first year and ran Pro Honda HP4 10-40.
Since then it has been run on Mobil 1 synthetic and changed along with filter every four or six trials.
Valve clearance he checks twice a year.
I was amazed at the condition of the motor considering the work it has done, there was some light pitting on the exhaust valves but that was all.
We don't have any trials here with high speed road sections involved but do have a number of properties that have laps of 5-6 km and a Scott type event where the laps are around 45mins each and of course often hot and dusty.
With valve clearances I am ashamed to admit that after finding nothing changed with my first bike I didn't get round to checking my Repsol valves until I had done 53 events and logged 200 hrs. The bike had been getting hard to start when hot, needing 3-4 kicks when left at a section, when I checked valves the exhaust had closed up to 0.18mm. Resetting to the specified 0.30mm instantly cured the reluctance to start.
I have an '09 4RT "Repsol" and am going to be riding through elevation changes of 6-9000 feet. If I do the complete "full power" mod (factory), it involves exchanging the header for one without a catalytic converter and removing the oxygen sensor (no port).
Does the removal of the sensor make it an open system?
Will the fuel injection system have difficulty adjusting for significant climatic changes? Quickly or at all?
Does it affect fuel consumption?
Thanks.
Has something changed with the 09 models? I didn't think there was an O2 sensor or catalytic converter on these motors. I understood the throttle body monitored intake air pressure and temp (and I'm not sure about the pressure measurement), an O2 sensor would have to be on the exhaust side wouldn't it?? My 06 bike certainly doesn't have any sensor or converter on the exhaust side.
Is somebody having a lend of us with this question??
We use the aftermarket Apico brake lever, cheap as chips so it doesn't matter if you knock a few off, especially if anyone is doing the SSDT. Rocks are a bit of a hazard!
Big John
You can of course fit a Clake and not bother with the rear brake pedal at all.
Saw the post for suspension set up for someone weighing 13 stone. What are the bikes set up like for somebody at 9.5-10 stone?
Thanks,
I am just under 9.5st and found the front end fairly dead, I had only two turns of pre-load on which gave me about 10mm of sag from bike off ground to standing on both wheels, however only sagged another 20mm with me in the riding position. That is 30mm in total. General recommendation for trials is a total of 50-60mm with rider in riding position. The standard fork spring measured up at 7.5kg rating, I fitted an Ohlins spring rated at 7.0 kg
I run more pre- load to keep the 10-15mm initial sag but now have a total of around 45 -50mm sag.
Also fitted a TRP shock to the rear as I couldn't source a lighter rear spring here for the Showa rear shock.
Overall much more compliant particularly at the front and has reduced the bang through the bars on smaller rocks and roots particularly on the between sections going.
Adjustment of damping depends really on how you ride and what you want to do, if you want to hop the bike a lot you will most likely use minimum damping. This is also affected by the oil you use, it has been shown elsewhere on this site that there is a substantial difference in the viscosity of the same grade of oil sold by different manufacturers.
Remember you cannot adjust spring rate, only the initial load applied by the spring, it is crazy to expect one rate of spring to suit all from 9 to 15 stone.
That's been my solution the other may be to load up the bumbag with a few stone!!!
I can locate the fork spring part number if you want it, unfortunately they come in pairs.
Thanks to Jim Evans and John Robertson we found this Greeves TFS Scottish for a very reasonable price. It will be my next project for this summer. Will upload some pics with the progress and when finished.
Any advice is wellcome. My idea is to paint frame and tank in a metallic blue (not the original) and make the seat in dark grey.
TFS Scottish, does this mean it is the later challenger head and barreled motor in a Scottish frame? I had a 1965 TFS new and it had full width alloy hubs which I think were Motoloy, the tank was slightly different and had a Monza filler cap as standard and the exhaust was on the right hand side and had a very long tapered silencer with a small diameter outlet that produced a very unique sound.
I had a deal of success with the TFS and was a huge improvement over the Barnet's of the day.
I am sure you will have equally as much fun with it.
For me a buffed up alloy tank was one of the outstanding visual features of the Greeves mark, I reckon it is sacrilege to paint them, but hey that is a personal thing.
I saw the report that the loss of power on Bous' bike was caused by a "blocked breather". Does anybody know if that was true and which breather it was?
I presume it was the fuel tank breather as I can't see the crankcase breather causing the problem he experienced. Just nice to know for future reference when trying to trace an obscure fault on our bikes.
i used the jitsie steel plates in my 2005 and they work ok, i used atf oil
but its just a honda disease same on a tlr
regards bob
I don't agree, I have had both 05 and currently 06 4RT's, the clutch is nothing like the TLR. The TLR as standard was really grabby and noisy and difficult to ride.
I have found the 4RT as standard very sensitive but does not grab, the std clutch action is very quick and took some getting used to after the (modified) TLR but I
stuck with it and after a few weeks found the std 4RT totally controllable and I like the instant engagement when you want it. With mine provided you are sensitive with the clutch finger it will slip just as much as I require without grabbing or noise.
After reading stories of other peoples experience with a variety of oils I have used the recommended Elf product exclusively.
Agree with Jimmyl give the standard set up a go for a couple of weeks before you consider changing anything.
I made one from plastic tube but don't know where I put it, will try and dig it out later.
That would be for the right hand leg Nigel?
I have completed the left leg and found that it has a bi-hex socket as part of the damper casting, all that is required there is a hex head bolt (or nut) that is 24mm across the flats, welded to a piece of rod about 250mm long.
A 16mm metric bolt or 5/8 Unified have a hex head around 23.5mm and fit fine.
I haven't stripped the right leg yet so haven't seen what is required other than it must be tubular to go over the damper rod.
If you do have a photo of the tool you used Nigel, will be appreciated.
The TLR is a wet sump motor so oil pump bypass will not cause smoking as in a dry sump motor with remote tank. The usual cause of your symptoms is worn valve guides and/or damaged valve stem seals.
If these are worn oil drains down from the valve gear when standing and accumulates in the combustion chamber.
just bought a 4rt secondhand as not done much work so how often do you guys services you 4RTs i.e engine and gearbox oils every six as per book or more?
what is piston ring wear on them like it says to change them after 6 mths is this the case or do the last longer ?
anyone rebuild one on engine failure ?
and is there anything to keep a eye on in general?
there are two 05's over here that have been in regular use, estimate around 400 hours running. One had head and barrel removed for checking at the end of last season and was declared a waste of time by the mechanic as all was in spec and it was rebuilt with only new rings. The other hasn't been touched other than compression check. So our experience is that piston replacement at 6mths is completely unnecessary in normal circumstances.
Engine oil and filter change we all do around six trials + practice and regular airfilter clean and change out if the foam is deteriorating. Using the elf oil I have let the transmission go to change twice a year.
Do check valve clearance after first 5 or 6 trials, I only then do an annual check and so far have found they haven't needed adjustment after the first time.
Our experience has been that the motor is amongst the most bullet proof in the trials world.
First I've heard of this unit, but after reading the website, I'm very interested. I like seeing new approaches and this looks to be a genuinely useful idea. I agree about the difficulty in using the rear brake to bring back a runaway wheelie on a steep uphill and also find I can't get a brake pedal position that is ideal so I have total control on the brake with a decent foot position on the peg.
I'm interested to hear how you get on with it.
Graham
Second trial of the year and had my first win ever in current grade! Main benefits for me are being able to stop and recover on steep rock climbs without rolling back or loosing balance, better steep downhill control and easier to hop the bike in a section as I don't need my foot on the rear brake.
There is a clip of Matt Newland practicing on his bike I have seen on U tube, not sure if I know how to post the link but will type it in if I can't.
Best disc pads for wet conditions
in Montesa
Posted
On the odd time that we have wet conditions here I find the front brake on the 4RT unaffected or even a bit better when wet, whereas the rear is fairly ordinary when wet but good when dry. I think I have Top Fun pads in the rear, what make do you real wet weather guys use?