sideup

Got it, excuse me Mr. Brown and Slapshot.

Looks very nice! Best of all not a black frame. Can't spring for an new 08 but maybe my 07 might get a new fender and frame sticker up grade. Not sure what the #1 stands for. Any clues? Maybe the bike serial number.

Lane, FYI Bou won Sheffield Dec. 06 on his Beta to start the string of wins. I agree with Outlaw.

But at what cost?

http://www.snopes.com/autos/techno/wetroad.asp Snopes says it could happen.

MD Thanks for the picture. My information was from a KtM owner, and trusted tech guy. Sure looks like the throttle valve (19) (slide) is free floating on the rollers. Sure can't see where a throttle cable is connected to it. Hard to tell from a picture, as you said, we need someone who knows how it works.

Don D, Anybody correct me if I am wrong, but isn't a Keihin FCR-MX 39, used on 2006 KTM off road bikes a CV type carb? If it is they must work pretty good. I don't want to start a brand war, but the KTM makes pretty serious off-road bikes. Allot can happen in 25 years.

Not one to ever give advice..... The first time I took one off, I had the chain off and still couldn't get it out. I thought no way, they had to design this pedal to replace without taking the swingarm off. Just think if you broke one during a trials. It was like one of those metal puzzles. I wiggled the pedal in every direction possible. Getting mad and in disbelief that I could not get it out, it magically fell into the slot machined in the frame, slid out the back and fell on the ground. Reassembly kind of the same technic. Like one of those puzzles, can't say I can repeat the procedure. I will memorize the Jezza formula just in case.

Billy T Fair Enoungh. :agree:

Cave Drawing of Sideup inventing the wheel: Dang I should have patented it. Billy, As far as my comment to cope. He said you "need" to run the hoses up and tee them together. I was just pointing out that the team riders bikes I looked at WTC in Tenn. had the brass tubes bend downward and that the tubes ran down underneath the carb. Conclusion: They must not "need" to run up and over the carb as they seem to be working just fine for them just as they have for me. A little sarcasmism, yes, but that's the norm on here. Then I am accused of stealing someone else's idea........or not giving credit which I clearly did in the first post. BTW, come to think of it the tab bending was relayed to me by the beta importer long before I read your article. I suppose he got it from you also. WHY DOES IT MATTER? I am glad my, claim to fame and life does not evolve around a chunk of metal with gas flowing through it. My kids and grand kids are my claim to fame. End of subject for me. I learned a lesson, I'll stay out of the advice field. Jack

Billy, Perhaps you should get your facts right. I made no reference of your tee tube up over the carb thingy you suggest. Don't flatter yourself, Dabil and Bou were not routing the tube up and teeing them together as your mod suggests. They routed the overflow tube as they come from factory, just slightly bend the brass tube down to miss the exhaust. That's all. Aren't we touchy....... You can stick your tubes where ever you wish. Jack

I agree even same model year between different riders bikes one can notice differences in set up. Also manufactures must decide what size person they optimise the bike control points for: ergonomics. Could be set up to suit a rider at 5'9" rider vs. a 6'3" rider. Feedback from a small test rider maybe different than a tall test rider. Not better or worse, depends on size of rider. That's why I asked the question, perhaps it was set up for a smaller rider this year from feed back from last year. Nothing that could not be adjusted or the rider could adjust to, just different.

Although the tube bending trick and routing was copied from Bou's and Dabils bikes, I could care less where you run your tubes. The point was a suggestion to protect your tube from laying against the hot exhaust. I might try that t-trick. Cope let me tell you where you can run your tubes. Ohno: From everyone I have done the tangs are dead flat from the factory. I don't think they change anything come from the factory.

ohno, Billy Traner carb set up has worked for me on three different rev 3 bikes. No over flow problem, unless of course if you tip over. See this link on r2w site. http://www.r2wtrials.co.uk/html_files/betacarbsetup.html Never had to do anymore than set the float level per Billy's spec. We have never messed with drilling mod. Also a picture is attached that shows a heat sheild mod I do on the exhaust side to keep the tube from melting against the mid silencer. 1) Take a plier and gently bend the over flow tube down slightly. 2) Purchase some new tubing and a spring that will just fit over it. 3) Put the tube on and spring. Turn the spring backward and it will become larger dia. and slip over the tube port on the carb and will be firmly attached. 4) Route under carb and I connect the two tubes a run down to the back of the skid plate.

Steve, Good try with the pictures. I have tried this in the past and it is really hard to get good measurements in pixals. I'll be heading out this weekend and will try to get more accurate results. We were using the swingarm pivot point as a reference fore/aft instead of the rear axle. Probably both points of reference is best. Also assuming the brake pivot is the same, it appears that the 07 peg is more forward than the 06. Heck my 06 brackets may be so bent it's hard to get a good measurement. I'll straighten them, ...again. No matter, three previous 06 owners noticed something is different. Jack

Out riding today with my friend on his new 07 250 Rev3, me on a 06 270 Rev3. Gave the 07 a go: Definitely noticed more bending of stance and more weight on the hands and more of a cramped riding position. We did a quick side by side check with a measure stick. Not 100% sure but it seems that the 07 foot peg height was about 1/2 inch higher and 1/2 forward from 06. Bar height seems to be the same from year to year. Granted, not a completely accurate measurement but we both noticed there is a feel of a more compact riding position. Maybe a good thing for my friend who is 5'6" but I , 6'0" perferred the 06 stance. I wonder if 1/2" back and 1/2" lower pegs are in the works at any accessories parts places.

Barry, Agreed that Rev frame look has been around for some time. The 07 main frame tubes have be chopped by about 3/4 inch. Look closely and you can see the weld (ground flush) where it appears they cut the original extrusion and welded to make the tube a smaller diameter near the back. I guess I looked at the 07 like a Porcshe 911, changed but still keeping the same look. My first thought when I saw the Rev4 was "no way, how did they keep the gas tank in the frame and still fit that 4st engine in there." "I thought that engine must be small." (it does appear the front of the skid plate might be lowered some). Keeping the gas tank in the frame seemed to be un-doable, but they did it. Besides the look of the frame, there must be an advantage in stiffness & stability using that aluminum mono-beam frame tube. Jack

But the 07Beta frame, while having the same style, is quite different from the 06 frame. Right?, slim and trim? The 4rt came out as a completely new frame. Which looks more sleek and developed the 4rt or the Rev 4. The pancake tanks on the works 4rt looks great, but the stock tank tends to look like a after thought. For necessity agreed. Got to put the gas somewhere. Nothing wrong with keeping the same look or brand identity, if it works and looks good, as Sherco and Beta did.

Reading the translation, Fuji said he got the bike(s) and stuff out before it went up in flames. No one injured. Funny, that probably most pollution into the air than a couple thousand two strokes trials bikes put out in a season.

Nigel, Have to agree with most of what you say. I am perfectly happy with my current two stroke, but am excited to see another new product introduced to the trials market. Clearly 4st trials bike haven't become a superior machine (better in all aspects) to the 2st, as demostrated by units sold. MX-perhaps a different story. Repair bills: Had a friend tell me the other day about his buddy trying to sell his 2003 Yamaha 4-stroke MX bike with a blown head. They priced the repair $1900. Value of bike on the market = $2300. Now trying to sell it as a part out bike. Good luck with that. Jump to conclusion story: Couple of us out riding Ishy's Sherco 4t on Saturday. It just died. Kick, kick, kick......... "Gas On?" "Yes I think so" "Sure?" Another Sherco rider: "Yeah, gas is on." Kick, Kick, Kick..... "Let Me try." "remember get it at top dead center" Kick, Kick, Kick All thinking , yes this is the unfamous problem we have heard about. 3rd rider trying Kick,kick, kick..... Go get Ishy. Ishy shows up... Looks at the petcock. "You guys had the gas off." Two kicks, bike starts and he rides away. End of story.

I'm with Kinell, Time will tell. COST: Of course you know OEM prices are different than retail. I owned a 4rt and agree it was a maintenance free dream as far as the EFI. Well thought out and fun to play with the different curves. And yes I did gear it down. I also spent some time on Ishy's Sherco 4t. Just different design thinking, good and bad with both. All I am saying is be a little open minded. I am sure EFI may see many improvements in the future that may prove out the best of all things. On the other hand it would be hard to find anyone who just had to tear his carb apart to clean jets at an event in the middle of a dirt pit call a carb superior to anything. I certainly never put the two words together and neither did Beta. Beta stated why they chose the Carb over the EFI. I don't remember cost being the factor. It maybe marketing, it may be how their data proved out from testing the bike. But it seems you don't believe it and have your mind made up already. Remember there are exceptions to everything. Sometimes, simpler the better. I hate to admit it but I haven't had my carb off my two stroke Beta in over 6 months, it running great. Heck all I have done is replace a lever, a chain guard, and a disc guard, talk about no maintenance in 9 months time. I heard of up coming tests coming up with top riders riding the new Beta. Let's see what they have to say. Next year at this time all these questions will have answers, and will be history. It will be snowing again and we will have to find something else to debate. What would happen if in a couple years a carbon fiber leaf spring swing arm was developed using two internal shock dampeners mounted to the arms that was lighter than the single spring system currently used. No way two shocks.....can't be good. Stay tuned Fantic 2008 perhaps? Ok, I've done my part to make this thread in the running for the longest one ever. Jack (owner of Honda Cars, Honda lawnmower 4 st motors, two-stroke Beta 270) (I'll never say no EFI or for that matter 4st, I've learned never say never, tough words to eat. Right Ron?)

Sirhc, As I said owning one does not make you an expert (specialist) in fuel delivery. I just find it odd users can make blanket statements without any real world data to back it up. Where as a company that tests many prototypes, and are staking the future on new models and decisions they make are instantly discredited by these so-called experts. It's like someone else said it like they want it to fail. All manufacturers have EFI available for their use if they choose. Do you think any manufacturer would immediately eliminate one type of system without first testing? and testing and testing? It is obvious Beta has not spared any thing on this new bike and they took years to get it right. In the end they must weight the plus's and minus's and choose what they feel will get the best performance, with reliability, and maintenance in mind. It seems this EFI thing is the last bastion for Montesa's owners to cling too....? I am not saying one is better than the other, who knows. How can anyone make statements, before the bike is even for sale, let alone riding one? For what is available to the customers, I still think the two strokes are still the ones setting the standards.

MD ......"it's clearly superior system"..... I say the above is pretty matter of FACT statement. Are you an expert on the subject? Remember owning a 4rt does not make one an expert. Beta press release leads me to believe it's not so cut and dry: Quote from translation: ......."The reason to use a traditional carburetor instead of an injection system is that the carburetor works better at low revolutions, thus being able to turn to less than 1000 rpm, and facilitating the control of the moto in low and a minimun speed apt for trial. Thus to 1000 rpm this motor tour perfectly, being able to maintain a slow motion to only 750 rpm."......

I had a go on the 07 beta's yesterday. A little 125 and a shorter time on a 250. I currently own a 06 - 270 beta. Two things I noticed about the 07's. 1) It seems that the riding stance is bent over the bars a little more. 2) My wrist started to ache. After a quick measurements, I could not see any differences that would explain the lower bar feel. The wrist ached, I believe was due to the stiffer fat bar feel. I remember the same feeling after changing to fat bars on a GG a couple years ago. Tend to feel everything through the bars a little more. After a couple weeks I did not notice it anymore. Perhaps the stiffer bars or bar bend are giving you the soreness. Can't imagine giving anymore power to the 270! My conclusion: I really like the new look of the slim frame, like the familiar feel of a Beta. Now the only question if wait to ride the new Rev4. It will have to be pretty good to beat the rev3. No matter what bike I may get that black plastic of the Rev4 is going on it. It's hot.

As said above "carb is a carb". But what is better for a trials bike?: 1) A EFI system that needs to idle at 1750 rpm, to keep the electronics working properly, which means feathering the clutch at very slow speeds. 2) A carb that can idle a 750 rpm maybe eliminating the clutch work at crawling speeds. Also found this news release (2004) on a Discharge pump EFI system that eliminates the fuel pump in the gas tank. http://www.mikuni.co.jp/e/iBeat/index.html