325 Beamish Help Needed!

[lee harris]

Whilst at the 2-day Dartmoor Trial this weekend (great trial, thanks to Bill Hartnell and his helpers!) I swapped one of my Fantic 200s for clean looking 325 Beamish. Maybe a bad move from a competitivness (?) standpoint but nostagia said I needed a Beamish as I trashed the rearframe loop of my mates 250 back in 1979 using a hard place and 3rd gear!

This one has no rear loop to trash! It has the black engine and I think ist an 81 model. Although it looks clean it would not pull the skin from a rice pudding. The owner said it woz once owned by Nigel Birkett (are you reading this?) and had been converted to 370 using an AJS piston?? I think a ty 80 has more power! It will just about lift the front wheel in first, where is the 24 bhp? It looks std apart from a WES silencer. It rattles alot and the owner said it was the fins with no rubber spacers! He had supposedly fitted a new ring.

I have an original barrrel,anyone know the max OD before a rebore is necessary? Where can I get a piston , std or oversize? Are conrod kits available also? I have used 0,25mm oversize piston also which doesnt look too bad although if I am gonna pay for a new engine, I would really like a NEW one! Anyone know wot alternative parts can be used?

If I have a barrel for a fantic rechromed, I know the clearances needed (0,03mm) and the plating is done to fit the piston. If I rebore the std barrel, what clearance do I need to let it run ok without too much rattlin? (0,04mm?)

I am not expecting this lump to perform like one of my 240 or 300 fantics, but I feel cheated!!!!My TY 250 from 76 ist bags more powerful.

Would a 250 flywheel wizz things up abit?

Comments and help desperately needed....Also your feedback or comparison of the 325 would be great. Cos if this is as good as it gets, I

[robin luscombe]

This model of Suzuki could be a 250 or 325, the only difference between the two is the piston and obviously the barrel. The 250 uses a 325 barrel with a sleve fitted and a modified cylinder head. The pistons for the 250 should be fairly easy to get but the 325 one is a special part which could be difficult.

Colin Appleyard motorcycles used to distribute parts for the Beamish years ago and might still have some information. Try them on 01535 606321.

[lee harris]

Thanks I will try Appleyards. The number you supplied is for their cars dealer. The bikes number is 01535 606311. I also found some numbers/websites which may be useful at the BeamishOwnersClub.com

Lee

[ask greeves]

LEE.. What's come over you, did fall of yer bike in Devon...bang yer head. You exchanged one of the best twinshock trials bikes ever produced, for a hotch potch of Japanese trail bike mixed with a beauuuutiful English built chassis albeit 1960's angles and size, finished in yellow.....yuk, almost looks like a SWM. There was only one person who really got a Beamish to go somewhere how it should, that was John Gaskell (not forgetting John Reynolds on a solo, but he could balance), he used a 4 stroke cosworth piston, bought a blank and machined it to fit, but the original barrel wasn't a standard barrel, but a works barrel to start with, this was in the days before Robin Luscombe won everything. Incidentially Robin was one of the first exponents of using a monoshock trials outfit, yes a Fantic 301, everybody thought it wouldn't work. Anyway you'll probably have no problem selling the Suzuki in Germany, cause as they say 'Germans have a sense of humour, HA HA HA HA HA.

[hillary]

I used to ride 325 Suzukis with a sidecar fitted, did five years or so of the British Championship in the early 'eighties and the Suzuki was just about the best for the job in those days. John Gaskell certainly had a special one but the standard bike was plenty powerful enough to drag two big lads along and still get up some biggish sections. Spares have been a problem for years. However, they did rattle but they were sturdy engines and I never blew one up.

As a solo they were not as good, and the bike John Reynolds rode was a special magnesium one. Birks still has his and rides it once a year, though two years ago you may recall he did the Classic Championship and won the series - the only British Championship series he has ever won. That magnesium Suzuki is still superb, but it's not a standard bike.

Like anything else, a 325 could be made to go well, but is it worth it??

[jon v8]

Interesting stuff this,I started competing in 1985 on a silver engined Rl 250.What a dog of a bike it was too,not that there was anything wrong with it mechanically - it was horrible in most respects,I rode the Dartmoor 2 day at the w/e on my Ty250,first ride on it.What a lovely tool in comparison ! It goes,grips and steers like the Rl could only dream of,all I need to do now is lose about 3 stone and not get completely hammered the night before,and I might get somewhere !!

Thanks to Bill Hartnell,Mike Naish,et all for a great weekends ride - Im glad it didnt rain and I managed to miss the traffic on the M5 too - Bargain !!

[lee harris]

Yeah some good discussion but we are missing the point. I still have 11 fantics! If a fantic 200 is a mini cooper 1275S, then this beamish is running like a wolesley 1800 (remember those...) i want it to run like it should...or to put it another way, like a morris marina 1800TC. (I rallied one of those).

I know this is boring for people that think gasgas invented the trials bike but when Harris (no relation) made the magnum for a GS1000, everybody creamed for one. The Beamish is sexy,...................... althought the headstock is cracked like most of my 240s

Wot about some technical tips apart from "use it as a paperweight".

I have just checkeds the std bore and it is bug

Edited September 14, 2006 by Lee Harris

[ask greeves]

Hi Lee, Yes you'll ride it in anger, every time you get on it, you'll think 'what have I done, am I a dumkorf'. Have you noticed, it don't start in gear, the earlier silver ones did. Make sure piston dimensions are the same, not just the bore. Whoever bores it should know what clearance for a liner engine, it's alot bigger than the Fantic with chrome bore. If the Hilary that posted is the northsea diver with no front teeth, then his original 325 was far from standard, it had lots of special parts including barrel and boysen reeds. Your bike probably just needs a good work over, nothing a grand won't put right. Check to make sure , it aint had a chair fitted, as this kills them prematurley. My other speciality are Austin A35's and Morris Marina's, as your an ex rally driver who used the BMC marque, you've now joined another elite group of 1950's design revamped to compete in the 70's and 80's. Yes you probably will be allowed to use it in pre 65, just paint the frame black and the tank green and call it a Lee Francis, or Francis Barnet, but what chance have you got against a BSA Bantam !

[jon v8]

Marina 1800tc - huh,I had 3 dolomite sprints,excellent fun with no brakes or suspension.The only thing i can remember doing to improve the Rl250 was to remove the bolt on flywheel weight - it made a hell of a difference.It actually slowed down when you shut the throttle near the top of a climb - instead of propelling you into whatever the brakes had no chance of stopping you for.Sorry ,I can help you with piston/bore clearance or ring end gaps,just thinking if you can get the exact settings from a shop manual then one of the old reference books like Phil Irving's Tuning for speed ought to be close enough.

The other thing I remember about that bike is that the spark was so weak you couldnt see it in daylight - but it always started first kick.

[trickymicky]

I had a 250 Beamish from new and it was a disappointment. It had too much flywheel, and if i remember correctly couldn't be started in gear wheras the earlier silver engined ones could.

The first of the Whitlock framed (red/black tank) ones were really interesting- they had a faulty gear selector drum, and the gear sequence went 1 2 3 5 4 !

As Robin said, the 250 was a sleeved down 325 (done in the uk) Easiest way to tell is if the '325' cast in at the barrel base has been ground off, if so its likely a 250.

[ask greeves]

Hi Lee, Club night tonight, and the concensus of all members is that it may be, the rear frame is missing to hide the fact that the grab handles for a passenger which are brazed on the frame before chroming, have been cut off, to hide the fact that it was an outfit beamish. Also where the swinging arm is rusty, could be where the passengers foot goes. Don't sit in that darken underground garage, on yer little stool, looking like the thinker. Brighten up, think of your 11 Fantics with there double cradle frames, there 6 speed, electronic ignition, plastic tank, waiting to be thrashed, front wheel in air. The conical hubs, mazzochi forks, all working in unison. There is one ray of hope, I've heard that the electric servo motor, from a BMW electric mirror can be modified to advance and retire the beamishes ignition, only trouble is its quite hard to find these servos, as there was a spate of faulty ones.

Edited September 14, 2006 by ask greeves

[lee harris]

I somehow get the impression that I am alone with my thoughts of how nice the bike is!

Jon, which bolt did you remove from the flywheel? It doesnt look like its had a chair fitted to it and quite frankly, I like (the look of) it.

Still, time will tell. I will take the head off this weekend and see wots in there. I

Edited September 15, 2006 by Lee Harris

[andyrothers]

I had a 325 beamish, but the earlier model that you had with the full rear frame loop. A friend once had a later model 250 without the frame loop just as yours has.

Mine was originally a solo but did have a sidecar, i think its unlikely yrs had a sidecar as the swinging arm was about 40mm longer, the headstock had a large boss / reinforcement to attach the chair just infront of the tank and the left hand footrest mount was reinforced. The sidecars also had different fork yokes.

Mine ran for years with little maintenance and invariably started first kick whatever the weather. Brings back fond memories, wish I had it now..... Could never get fork seals to last long tho for some reason.

[woody]

I used to have a later 325 Beamish too and I liked it. The motor would pull out tree stumps, really strong and it gripped well. Steered a bit slow but that was the only negative, but so do mid to late 70s Bults. If yours is gutless it has something wrong with it or it is a 250. Should be no lack of power believe me.

As someone has already mentioned, the last of the Suzuki motors were pupose built trials motors, as opposed to the old silver painted TS (I think) derived RL motor. They were all built as 325 and sleeved down here to achieve 250, but from what I was told some time ago now, the design of the exhaust port didn't work very well on the 250, in view of the fact it was designed as a 325.

I still think they are a nice looking bike, the later yellow model I am referring to, like yours, and one day when money and space permit I'll get another one

[jon v8]

From memory the extra flywheel weight I removed was a metal "saucer" held on by about 4 screws.(C/sunk headed ?) Remember this was the earlier silver engined 250,after removing it the engine was loads better - but not a patch on my "new" Ty250 !