Discussion On Youth Funding

[timp]

Kinell, I agree that transport could be arranged privately between a number of competitors, as some allready share vehicles now without any great problems i think it could be possible to run a bigger vehicle between more riders.

I just don't think the ACU should get involved financially.

Mark T

[the addict]

Old Trials Fanatic, good reply thanks

Things have changed loads mate, dont think anyone is asking for charity just abit of help to make things easier and keep up with the rest of the world.

Ask most lads who there fav rider is most will say Dougie, for that reason alone its worth having him doing what he does best, rather that answer than Raga. I still look up to what he does and learn from such determination and self belief, good to have the kids being able to aspire to him.

I had to work to buy my first bike, took me ages to save it up and yes you probably learnt something from doing it but but times have changed, a year in this game is a year behind everyone else.

There are sponsors out there agreed but most put money in for the love of the sport rather than any return, bit of a loosing battle trying to get BP or others involved.

We all live in a I want now society, right or wrong its how it is, and how its likely to stay so we have to make the most of it, telling little Jonny hes got to spend 20 hours a weeks earning his bike wont wash anymore in most cases.

I know a good supplier for reinforcing rods for that shelter if you get short in the next few days

Just

Edited October 11, 2006 by Betarev3

[as iow]

You all forget one thing and that is value for money, investment & return on capital.

If we expect the ACU to help our future stars, then they must give in return.

Example. Since Becky, Chris,& George have won their British championships, we have had an increase in new members to the IOWMCC, mainly because of reports of thier sucsses in the local paper.

The club has more money coming in and so do the ACU, everyone wins.

If you have a super star in your club get it in your local paper, not eveyone reads T&MXN but most will read the local press

The best way of riders returning any investment in them by the ACU, would be by passing thier skills on to clubmen at training days F.O.C. The club/ACU could charge for this and get back some of the money they have invested in the rider.

[the addict]

Nice idea and obviously working well for you at the club, from Johns first post about the ACU and how its run we must remember the ACU is actually all of us, they are simply a place where ideas are formulated by us and organised. It

[scorpaf]

Come on Old Trials, gone are the days when you could by a house for 30 bob, a gallon of diesel for tuppence and get into the pics with a jam jar. Your pacemaker would stop if my monthly diesel bill dropped through your letterbox! And nobody is demanding help for 'little johnny'. We were asked a few questions by John Collins and people have merely left some suggestions.

Also remember most of these riders are probably knocking in 50+ trials per year - they are already contributing big time into the ACU purse through levys. So maybe, they could be given free entry into domestic trials.

The transport system is feasible(yes I've worked it out and yes I could probably do it), but maybe not perfect - I suspect people living near the South coast and particulary those with motorhomes would maybe be less interested. Still, the time saving would be a benefit to all. It could be easily subsidised (not paid for) by the ACU and ultimately would be best run by the ACU even if the final organisation was left to a third or interested party.

How about arranging all World and European rounds in the UK and making the foreigners cough like we have to? Sorted.

Right, I'm off to bed after my 12 hour night shift - heres hoping I don't get disturbed to do my part time job even though the money would come in nicely for this weekends 700 mile drive to the IOW. Still, if I got off my fat backside.........

[comorph]

Think positive folks, not like the Old Trials Fanatic, has he been an MP? mind you have you thought of sponcering a youngser it my do you good.

The ACU Licence could be signed each year by the ACU steuard to save cost.

If a Boy or Girl dont show protential in this country its no good paying out for them abroad, help them at home first.

If transport is to be considered a converted coach for half a dozen riders (thats a dozen bikes) it could carry tents for sleeping, driving could be shared as the licence required would not be HGV or PSV.

This ACU Acadamy thing starting at 15 years old is way out of date if a youngser has shown a special gift make shaw they at least are eating correctly, aim this at parents!.

It may be possible for training split north and south say Graham Jarvis and Sam Conner as suggested by others.

[john collins]

Purposely kept out of this post until know

[adsy]

No ! how much help have the ACU given you and the other lads this year, the Academy thing etc?

i.e. what has the funding been so far etc?

Jack has just finished his third season of Youth Europeans, culminating in him winning the title this year.

In the three years we have had Zero funding / help from the ACU.

Jack is also in the ACU Academy this year, I seem to remember someone posting on here that Academy riders got a little financial help for overseas events, as yet we have had nothing. All Jack has had from the Academy so far this year is 2 day's training with Jim Lampkin (which was excellent).

I have been reading this thread. Regarding youth funding, you cannot give to every youth who wants to have ride in a European Championship Trial.

In my opinion, for what its worth, funding should only go to riders who are committing themselves to ride the full series of any given Championship in Europe. If the ACU paid the entry (

[the addict]

Adsy,

Agree with the big truck point, lots of potential problems there mainly down to costs as well. Far from cheap running a lorry and having a place to register to park it up legally when not in use, taxes, ministry stuff would cost a fortune. Also what happened if it broke down on the way, 20 bikes at Dover and 20 riders and Minders/Dads/Mums in France.

Better to share the vans between riders if at all possible and help as you said get the entries/licences paid for.

Not so sure about only the committed part though receiving any help, that would be pretty hard to sort out, I think anyone who wants to go to the trouble of riding abroad is showing quite a high level of commitment to start with. Imagine telling a parent or rider you can

Edited October 11, 2006 by Betarev3

[atomant]

I was going to do a separate post regarding the Trials Licence itself but here goes. As it is blatantly obvious we pay our tenner for it and in return get a quite good quality card and big heavy book, in my experience the book swiftly gets chucked in the bin quickly followed by the glossy ACU mag. The only reason I bother to have the licence in the first place is in the very, very unlikely chance I will be asked to show it at a trial. Never happened yet and probably wont but I don’t want to drive 200 miles on a Sunday to be told I cant ride, so that’s the only reason why I have one.

If I thought, my ten quid would be helping fund the sport I would be more willing to pay more for it, maybe not much more but certainly more than ten quid. Is the ACU Trials licence simply a expensive admin exercise? why on earth do we even need it, surely better to not have the book that most of us throw away and have very little use for in the first place. The card is actually quite good quality with a photo? Why? ,must cost quite alot to produce. I would much rather that ten quid be paid and actually do something for the sport than simply be used up in admin costs.

John could you let us know what the point of the licence is? not having a go but I just cant work it out, the book is available to be viewed in its entirety on the ACU site so why send it out. If people don’t have access to a computer they could request with the information a copy of the Trials section only. A disclaimer can be put on the licence application stating that the applicant has read the information via the site if it is an insurance problem.

I have no idea how many licences are issued in a year but there are approximately 3000 registered members on TC and I will take a guess that there are at least that number riding in the UK, maybe more. Multiply that by ten quid and its 30K less admin. If the cost of the licence process could be brought down significantly by getting rid of the book and fancy photo card there should be some money left rather than a loss as it is now.

30K will not represent a huge amount of help within a sport but it may be a start or bit of help for the youth riders.

Thanks for all the information John, keep it coming

You are right Betarev3, this topic warrants another post to discuss this idea. Any comments you wish to add to this, please make them in This thread thanks

[john collins]

OK - But I thought I had recently (I know I have in past explained some of this).

We actually do not have a " Licence" but a Registration card. This may seem like pernickety - but it is a fact.

To get our "Registration" or Enduro licence - unlike all other disciplines - we do not need a medical - only self declaration.

If you look into Sporting Code section of Handbook - You will see that all other facets are described as a

[the addict]

John, thanks for the reply again and detail, cant reply much tonight, tomorrow maybe. Just a couple of points, reg card, never ever been asked for it, done lots of trials all over the counrty. Turn up at a Road race event, no licence no ride thats it, no arguments, no writing down the number because you ve forgot it. You do road racing you dont forget it ever or it will cost you dearly.

If no-ones checking them or the numbers or the photo? whats the point, we could all not buy one and still ride, may not be popular for that comment but its true.

Info in the Book, yes very well written and detailed but its already on the ACU site, every page, every detail, why waste the money posting it out and producing it for us. Road racing yes, a must due to all the bike info, classes etc etc.

Just

Admin : This post moved to This thread as not on topic

can we keep this on topic please? Thanks

[the addict]

Sorry Ian, not 100% off topic, I can just see some savings here

Edited October 11, 2006 by Betarev3

[atomant]

Sorry Ian, not 100% off topic, I can just see some savings here

No problem, you made a good point I thought so just stuck it in another thread for discussion . I expect this to happen quite a lot

[john collins]

Reality - Old Trials Fanatic and a few others have stuck their head above the parapet and said what they think. Others - more emotive have replied/ disagreed

I have to tell you - that in the majority of Clubs - the view is very much that of Old Trials.

I attend my Club almost every Monday night. We run Brit Solo Champ & Brit Trails or Sammy Miller every year - so have a wide spectrum. Like all clubs we have older and younger members - and by present day standards are quite a strong club. At present really only Trials now - but in past also Enduro & MX.

I have been in this Club , active and until recently ( ACU commitments) have rarely missed a weekly Club night for probably 30 years.

Make no mistake - the fact that I am Chairman of T & E and ACU Director counts for sod all!

If you did a poll in our Club - I will bet my house the majority would agree with Old Trials Fanatic - that their money - to any great extent should not be subsidising youngsters to ride on Int stage.

I am fairly sure this is typical acropss Clubs in UK - certainly not all - but a large number of riders - and Trials Central posts seem to also indicate this - there will be conflicting views.

Any attempt to divert money from levies - will be criticised by many. Fact not fiction.

HOWEVER - forget that. I - ( this will surprise you ) agree with IOW.

If you wish to progress the sport - you do need sucess - and to see British riders to the fore.

Forget M/Cycling - just look at Tennis. When Wimbledon is on - certainly a few years ago when I was teaching - you would see certainly see youngsters out on the courts knocking a ball about and trying to play tennis - rest of year grass was only thing seen on the courts.

Unfortunately - in Wales - enthusisam has not been enough over the years - and we have not - Trials wise - had the results of other areas - but look at Enduro. Some years the British Team could practically all be Welsh - with the odd Scot. I put this down to the sucess of Geraint Jones and a few others - who many years ago ruled the Enduro scene - as Yorkshire riders have dominated Trials.

I read in TMX this week about an event in I.O.M ( granted non ACU) where the IOM riders had shown some class. Could it be the influence of a Mr Knight?

So yes - sucess on the world stage will strenghten our UK sport - and therefore put more money into ACU coffers which will help us do lots of the things we wish to do.

Now - to progress - for this is becomming like old ACU and wading through treacle.

Let us concentrate on trying to help youngsters. We are about 3 weeks away from Handbook etc going to print, Licence/ Reguistration forms are already going out. All the ideas for increasing finance etc - should we send out Handbook etc - are general points and will apply to all disciplines - let us move back to Trials.

The T & E - agreed yesterday that we do want to help support our young riders in UEM/FIM.

The Directors ( who will always decide on financial matters) agree - and support and accept this view.

Now we need to put meat on the bones - and make a start - OK not perhaps the huge support some would desire - but jeez we have to start somewhere - let us not waste this opportunity. The T & E and ACU Directors wish to make a start - surley we now need to take advantage?

Back to my original questions - let us debate best way to do it - we will never all agree - but at least I will have some ideas to offer up.