atomant Posted October 11, 2006 Report Share Posted October 11, 2006 Betarev3 made the comment below in This thread I was going to do a separate post regarding the Trials Licence itself but here goes. As it is blatantly obvious we pay our tenner for it and in return get a quite good quality card and big heavy book, in my experience the book swiftly gets chucked in the bin quickly followed by the glossy ACU mag. The only reason I bother to have the licence in the first place is in the very, very unlikely chance I will be asked to show it at a trial. Never happened yet and probably wont but I don’t want to drive 200 miles on a Sunday to be told I cant ride, so that’s the only reason why I have one.If I thought, my ten quid would be helping fund the sport I would be more willing to pay more for it, maybe not much more but certainly more than ten quid. Is the ACU Trials licence simply a expensive admin exercise? why on earth do we even need it, surely better to not have the book that most of us throw away and have very little use for in the first place. The card is actually quite good quality with a photo? Why? ,must cost quite alot to produce. I would much rather that ten quid be paid and actually do something for the sport than simply be used up in admin costs. John could you let us know what the point of the licence is? not having a go but I just cant work it out, the book is available to be viewed in its entirety on the ACU site so why send it out. If people don’t have access to a computer they could request with the information a copy of the Trials section only. A disclaimer can be put on the licence application stating that the applicant has read the information via the site if it is an insurance problem. I have no idea how many licences are issued in a year but there are approximately 3000 registered members on TC and I will take a guess that there are at least that number riding in the UK, maybe more. Multiply that by ten quid and its 30K less admin. If the cost of the licence process could be brought down significantly by getting rid of the book and fancy photo card there should be some money left rather than a loss as it is now. 30K will not represent a huge amount of help within a sport but it may be a start or bit of help for the youth riders. Thanks for all the information John, keep it coming John Posted this... OK - But I thought I had recently (I know I have in past explained some of this).We actually do not have a " Licence" but a Registration card. This may seem like pernickety - but it is a fact. To get our "Registration" or Enduro licence - unlike all other disciplines - we do not need a medical - only self declaration. If you look into Sporting Code section of Handbook - You will see that all other facets are described as a “race" or speed event. Trials and Enduro or not. This brings me back to handbook. Obviously the Trials section is only a small part - but there is a lot of other info in there as well. For example - the Sporting Code deals with a lot of the requirements for our Sport in general - all disciplines. In here it will tell you about your rights, right to Protest/Appeal/Time scale etc - as well as the constitution of the ACU etc - Rules of Union etc. I know people do not always read it - but that is your prerogative - and probably one of the reasons I wrote the lengthy piece about structure of ACU etc as my first contribution. All this is actually in the book. Every time you ride - you pay for Insurance. We do not work on an annual basis - but a per event basis. You pay for Insurance - you should - probably –( must?) be told what you are getting - all in Handbook. My son - rides around 40 times a year - I am sure he rarely reads the Handbook - but I recently heard him talk about someone protesting the score an Observer gave a rider. I heard the same thing from some well known riders during 2007 - total nonsense - you cannot for example Protest about your Observed score - all listed in the book. There is actually quite a lot of info in it - it is a lot of work - especially at his time of year when it is due at printers. I have already said - there may be possibilities in the future of doing it totally electronically - but there is still a way to go - so it certainly will happen in 2007. Re signing disclaimers that you have read it/ accepted you have seen it etc- I am tempted to say that such disclaimers are not really worth the paper they are written on - this is not true - they are some use - mostly in establishing the size of a proven claim - but generally you cannot sign your " rights" away in this manner . I stated that we have taken (and paid for) legal advice on these matters - and the handbook will stay – certainly for now -regardless of whether we are convinced it is worth it. Re - plastic cards - they are not actually all that expensive to produce - as previously stated it is the postage that really costs - and of course as BetaRev3 has just said there is an administration cost. BetaRev3 is also fortunate perhaps that he has not been asked for his - I certainly have in the last dozen or so events I have ridden in – they may have been picking on me of course – but I doubt it as in some events they had no idea who I was. Certainly in this Centre is would be extremely rare not to be asked to see this registration card. Often those who “forget” their card – put down the number – and only yesterday I saw a letter from a Club or Centre who were checking on the numbers they were given . The Insurance Company - quite understandably is quite keen that they are insuring people who we have on record so to speak – and they request a Licence/Registration system. Without anything – i.e. licence or registration we would have no idea who our Trials riders were. We could tell that there may have been 100 rides in a certain period from Insurance declarations – but would that be 2 riders riding 50 times each – or 100 riders riding once? This has all been looked at in past – and again it is really not going to change for 2007. The fact remains – as I thought I had explained that our Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the addict Posted October 11, 2006 Report Share Posted October 11, 2006 Ian, who's Bert? soz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack_h Posted October 11, 2006 Report Share Posted October 11, 2006 im curious to know why we need to pay the ten pounds for the handbook and lisence card. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomant Posted October 11, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 11, 2006 Ian, who's Bert? soz oops - changed it now.. Trying to keep you posting in the right places is wearing me out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
highland lassie Posted October 11, 2006 Report Share Posted October 11, 2006 im curious to know why we need to pay the ten pounds for the handbook and lisence card. Er....because they don't grow on trees? Who do you think should be paying for them?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olwhittyone Posted October 11, 2006 Report Share Posted October 11, 2006 think he means that if we stop getting them then we wont have to pay for them. i.e. we are paying for something that we do not want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Posted October 11, 2006 Report Share Posted October 11, 2006 think he means that if we stop getting them then we wont have to pay for them. i.e. we are paying for something that we do not want. This seems like a good time for John or Mick to explain the insurance and litigation reasons for having membership if they're so inclined. It's probably in the handbook, but it's becoming apparent folk don't read that as a lot of it isn't relevant to Trials. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john collins Posted October 12, 2006 Report Share Posted October 12, 2006 I have already done this - but one last time. Not relevant - why do we pay for something we do not want. There are lots of things we do not want - I have no interset whatsover in half the things my council spend my Council tax one - but they have taken the educated decisions - and that is it. Once more - and for last time - over last few years - advice has been ( possibly airing on cautious) that now - and for forseeable future - we protect ourselves and organisers by issuing the handbbok of Rules /Regulations/Sporting Code etc. When we meet with Insurers - they also have this point of view - and experince has shown that this option offers us some protection in court. This is not a matter in any shape or form for the T & E Committee - and questions regarding it can be raised at any time at National Council by Clubs via they Centres. If you wish to debate the chance that we - in the trials world - can not have a handbook and divert the funds elsewhere - please feel free. But the fact remains that certainly for 2007 we will have it. Please also remember - that the numerous Officials - on which our Sport relies - also need this Handbook - and it would be gross stupidity to expect them to organise events without access to rules/regulations. Who pays for the Handbook for all these Clerk of Courses etc - simple the rider. Other part of the Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rabie Posted October 18, 2006 Report Share Posted October 18, 2006 im curious to know why we need to pay the ten pounds for the handbook and lisence card. insurance co says so - lump it! was that simple enough for you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted October 19, 2006 Report Share Posted October 19, 2006 In clearer terms: In case something goes wrong or someone is hurt we have insurance. So everyone knows what they are allowed to do and not do we have rules. So evryone that organises events knows what they should do we have the hand book to cover this. The guideline and rules are laid out for the benefit of all that take part or organise. Printing and distribution costs money, thats the Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevem Posted June 22, 2007 Report Share Posted June 22, 2007 ive been riding a few years now and have never been asked to show my card at a trial. the past 3 trials i have filled out wrong numbers on the form so it doesnt look like that ever gets checked either if the card is for insurance and lots of riders dont have a card what happens if their is a accident and the rider doesnt have one?who is liabal? i dont think i will bother getting one next year as theres no point Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bikespace Posted June 23, 2007 Report Share Posted June 23, 2007 (edited) ive been riding a few years now and have never been asked to show my card at a trial. the past 3 trials i have filled out wrong numbers on the form so it doesnt look like that ever gets checked either if the card is for insurance and lots of riders dont have a card what happens if their is a accident and the rider doesnt have one?who is liabal? i dont think i will bother getting one next year as theres no point That's the side of motorcycle sport that people like the Ramblers love to see. 99.999% of the time you'll probably get away with it. That one in 100,000 occurrence could be the one where you do irrepairable damage to the sport. Run some kid over, or god forbid cripple yourself and you drop the whole sport in the mire. Absolutely irresponsible. The fact that you don't feel you're going to need a card, suggests you're probably never anything to do with organising an event or helping out in any way either. I've really got no time for tight ar5e freeloaders. I see a grim future for the sport in this ridiculous tree hugging world and you're not likely to help too much with comments like that. Acchhhh - I can't be a***d carrying on. I suspect with two posts you're probably trolling but ....... Edited June 23, 2007 by bikespace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorpa3 Posted June 23, 2007 Report Share Posted June 23, 2007 ive been riding a few years now and have never been asked to show my card at a trial. the past 3 trials i have filled out wrong numbers on the form so it doesnt look like that ever gets checked either if the card is for insurance and lots of riders dont have a card what happens if their is a accident and the rider doesnt have one?who is liabal? i dont think i will bother getting one next year as theres no point It's a bit like car insurance/licence/mot; to be legal and covered by insurance you have to have them but most people are never asked to show them... apart from taxing the car, which you can now do on line anyway. But what happens when you find yourself involved in an incident? You damn well need them then don't you! Well being affiliated to an organising body (the ACU in this instant) gives you that important cover. The onus is on the rider to be affiliated... you're the one who will be liable. Remember also; someone is paying for the necessary organisation which is running the events that you enjoy. If you don't pay then you're taking advantage of all those people who do. How do you think 'we' would all feel about that? Pay the tenner, it's very good value for money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the addict Posted June 23, 2007 Report Share Posted June 23, 2007 (edited) Last time I had to show my licence was about 8 months ago whilst getting cash out at the bank as ID been back riding Trials now for just over 14 months and its never been asked for at a Trial, that reminds me, must dust it down tonight just incase I have to show it tomorrow Edited June 23, 2007 by The Addict Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorpa3 Posted June 23, 2007 Report Share Posted June 23, 2007 Last time I had to show my licence was about 8 months ago whilst getting cash out at the bank as ID been back riding Trials now for just over 14 months and its never been asked for at a Trial, that reminds me, must dust it down tonight just incase I have to show it tomorrow You won't. It's the riders responsibility to make sure they are affiliated...... remember the trials affiliation is not actually a licence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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