Ok Time To Get Shot At. John What Is Or Should Be The Acu Position On Bike Elegibility Specifically Pre65 And Twinshock

[paioli]

got hold of old acu handbook only says of twinshock manufacture

[nigel dabster]

CHEAT to gain unfair advantage by deception or breaking rules.

up to the end of last year there were no rules in the twin shock class so putting two shocks on a 25 year

old ty mono was NOT breaking any rules, the oridignal manufacter rule was only introduced this year!

so proving any new rules can easly be introduced for next year!

r2tightarse trials get your facts right before you start calling people names and commenting on things that

you do not quite have the full facts about , now whose THICK

IF you think your brave enough,say it to the faces of those concerned and stop hiding behind your keypad

some how i don't think you have the BALLS !!!

I am sure the orignal manufacturer thing came in when the sebac series (as it was) had a certain eastern centre rider on a monoshock disc braked model with two shocks, so its definately been around a while.

[paioli]

prove it then because i have handbooks from the 90s and last year saying only twinshock manufacture

unlike some people who have stated they have no need for a acu licence or handbook!!!

[trickymicky]

The rules on eligibility in the Sammy Miller series were going to be strictly enforced at the Greensmith , last week we were told. I didnt go but have been assured no checking of bikes took place. So the threat of checking them seems to be worse than saying nothing. Those that have spent money getting their bikes may as well have not bothered.

And, it could now be interpreted by some when they see questionable bikes in the results of this series that the ACU have actually checked them (as they said they would) and passed them for their respective classes.

Did the ACU send anyone to that event? - and if so, what was his/her input on the day?

I don't think it was an actual statement from the ACU T&E committee that the bikes would be checked at the Greensmith. It came about as a result of a protest made at the previous round and as a consequence someone from the Greensmith organisers siad that bikes would be checked at the Greensmith. Whether this was a specific statement or just a question of should they I don't know but word got around that they would be checked. As you say, they weren't, but that aside, how can you suddenly throw bikes out of a class at the penultimate round when they have been competing in that class all year.

From the bikes that were there I would say the greater percentage would have been in the specials class if the rule had been enforced. Apart from the rigids, almost everything else had non standard something fitted.

I still don't know what the answer is. At least there are 2 routes in the Miller series so the easier route is fine for the bigger bikes or standard smaller bikes so there is no reason owners of those bikes can't enjoy a good days trialling. If a better rider has a standard bike then they can always ride the harder route for a challenge. Perhaps the rules could state that modified bikes ride the hard route, that way they're not competing against unmodified bikes and forget about the specials class...??

The twinshock rule that states must be twinshock of original manufacture has been in since the series began back in the 80s. It was missed out of last year's handbook by mistake but is back in now.

There isnt really an answer and history has just about repeated itself, at least where my local club is concerned. I keep all results and around 1980, 25 bikes in the pre unit class was not unusual. Now there are none (0) or occasionally 1.

Not keen on forcing anyone on to the hard route- some of the riders are elderly and it would finish them off.

At some events, such as the Manx Classic, the specials class, with nobody admiting they should be in it, is a pretty easy class to win and there is some impressive silverware for the pot hunters out there. (at the manx, at least) Heres a question- if a rider on a standard bike entered and won the specials class, could he get kicked out for his bike not being special enough?? (cant believe i've just written that!)

[nigel dabster]

prove it then because i have handbooks from the 90s and last year saying only twinshock manufacture

unlike some people who have stated they have no need for a acu licence or handbook!!!

What does 2002 say in the classic regs?

[paioli]

what dose it say in 2005 regs then

[02-apr]

Actually it could be argued that fitting a twinshock set up to a monoshock is a period mod.

One of the very first TY monos in the country (in the twin shock period remember) was converted to twin shock by a chap, in the north-west area if memory serves me right, because he thought the standard setup put too much strain in the back of the gearbox. He was proven right in a few cases too.

[ask greeves]

I can think of three things that you shouldn't do 1.....Eat an uncooked pork chop 2.....Jump out of an aeroplane without a parachute 3......Make a twinshock out of a monoshock....all these things aren't advisable, but people being people. Lets change the name of Pre 65 class to 'The 4 speed class' OK there be some losers but alot more winners. Lastly Mr Paioli, I don't think R2D2 will be able to reply to your challenge this week, He's probably in Manchester, training for a World Title defence of his Cruiser Weight Boxing Title.

[john collins]

Pre 65 and Twin shocks.

Inevitably my replies to most posts on this Forum will tend to be long

[martinm]

Out of interest.....what is the AMCA slant on this subject?

The converted mono seen down here in the south west, only seems to get used in AMCA events.

Martin

[slapshot 3]

Paioli, Chill out mate

Pre 65 and Twin shocks.

Pre-65 Scottish. Simple this. The SACU are fully entitled to make and use whatever rules they think serves them best. They issue their own Permits and carry own Insurance cover. In many cases they use the ACU rules

[twinshockdude]

well said Mr collins.common sense from theACU,whatever next!!

why don`t we all just ride trials and stop bitching?

[paioli]

i am now calm , i will not react to cheap shots , i am now in a peacefull place , i am at peace

well done john collins for bringing us down off the ceiling, as john points out, whose going to enforce

all these new rules , do the clubs want more work my guess is no ! i still think a machine eligibility

guide would help, firstly riders as to what they can build and what class they can ride, and secondly

the clubs and acu to settle any protests arising from out of class machines, this guide would not

appear overnight but could be researched and compiled for 2008.

sammy series needs the twin shocks in a class of there own this may encorage riders back into the

special class and make the other classes fairer. another point worth making its not the amount of

classes thats going to bring people back its how the sections are layed out, ie no tight turnes no

sharp drop off's and no large steps keep it simple these are big heavy bikes and if a rider thinks

its too easy there is always the classic series!

classic series this is the hard one, do you kick all the monos out and have a series for say 20 riders,

put in a second easier route and and hope to pick up clubman t/s and pre70, my personal opinion

is you would not get enough entrys and would not be worth running as the clubs would have to put

on a third route for experts to swell the entry , lots more work , monos back in !

deviations for the pre70 class maybe all it needs. all the bikes this year have been eligible so no

problems on that frount though i stand to be corrected by some anorak! sorry could not help that one

[old trials fanatic]

OK question answered. So anything goes then and sod the consequences.

Anybody had any experience of fitting Villiers outer cases to a TY250 mono engine?

After all the statement says in Twinshock "is fitted with twinshocks at time of manufacture" so as long as the basic frame starts that way it's a free hand.

Let loose the dogs of war and to hell with the consequences

And may the best man who knows an engineer and has deep pockets win

Question what about the monoshock conversions to the MAR OSSA that i remember seeing? Now they were fitted with twin shocks at time of manufacture. Perhaps the best solution then is to scrap the twin shocks and fit a monoshock rear end. See we have been looking at the problem incorrectly all along. Lateral thinking outside the box wins again

[woody]

why don`t we all just ride trials and stop bitching?

Yes, definitely.

I agree with what John has said as per my previous post. I'm happy just to be able to get out and ride in some traditional type trials rather than multi-lappers and am making the most of it whilst we still can as I too fear the end for these events is not too far away. I shudder at the thought of the only trials we will have permission to run are indoor or 'urban' events. I'd rather hammer tacks into my eyes...

The fact is that the twinshock class in the ACU Classic has never had any problems with eligibilty over the years. Bikes have always been modified for improvement or just personalised right from the begining, but no-one carped about it because it was all within acceptable boundaries - undefined boundaries granted, but it seemed everyone knew where to draw the line. It's only the last couple of years that the rumblings of discontent began with the appearance of discs and then converted monos. If those two elements are kept out of the Classic series there shouldn't be any problem. I wouldn't stop them riding but they lose any points they score and aren't eligible for the championship.

Individual club events, it's up to the clubs themselves. If riders in a certain area or club aren't happy with someone riding a converted mono, as I know is the case, they should take it up with the club officials and find out what their views are instead of quietly grumbling about it week after week.

Out of interest.....what is the AMCA slant on this subject?

The converted mono seen down here in the south west, only seems to get used in AMCA events.

Martin

The AMCA don't run a specific twinshock championship - although there was talk of one to 'better' the ACU Classic a couple of years ago which has come to nothing - so there is no AMCA ruling on the subject. AMCA Classic clubs running their own events are responsible for their own rules