ishy Posted November 18, 2006 Report Share Posted November 18, 2006 problems like that crap Sherco had. Didn't take you soft ******s long to get to this stage did it!! grow up it's a game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody Posted November 18, 2006 Report Share Posted November 18, 2006 Why does it have to have EFI? Modern motox and enduro bikes have been running trouble free on carbs for a long time now and on the bikes I've owned (Yam, KTM) I've never had problems of any kind. They haven't suddenly gone off tune and run fine whatever the weather. Why shouldn't the trials bike? The EFI is very impressive on the 4RT but it will still cough stall if ridden too slowly under load in a higher gear, just like any other 4 stroke. The biggest problem with that EFI set up for me though is the fact that the tickover is set at 1800rpm and can't be lowered much below that. I generally run my trials bikes with no tickover so that when I shut off the bike does too. The high tickover required by the 4RT EFI means that I can't drop it to snail pace when needed without dipping the clutch, it has to be ridden faster than I like in certain conditions. The Scorpa 4T I tried could be shut off almost to a standstill without using the clutch and ridden old fashioned style on the throttle alone. Same for the aircooled SY fourstrokes. Can't do that on the 4RT. No amount of messing with the PTB mapping can lower the tickover. If it had a normal tickover speed I couldn't fault it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spud Posted November 18, 2006 Report Share Posted November 18, 2006 Why did Sherco go for a 320cc when Montesa and Scorpa were happy with 250cc. Beta have chosen 250cc 4t when they have a 270cc 2t. What i'm saying is unless you've Japanese power then you need a bigger displacement to match the jap engines. Valid point? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomant Posted November 18, 2006 Report Share Posted November 18, 2006 Why did Sherco go for a 320cc when Montesa and Scorpa were happy with 250cc. Beta have chosen 250cc 4t when they have a 270cc 2t. What i'm saying is unless you've Japanese power then you need a bigger displacement to match the jap engines. Valid point? Maybe Sherco started at 300+cc because they knew they would need at least that size for Cabby to ride it and didn't want to have to do a 250 then develop a 'competition' bike with more power? I would assume they will have to upgrade the Beta as well for top level competition ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spud Posted November 18, 2006 Report Share Posted November 18, 2006 (edited) Why did Sherco go for a 320cc when Montesa and Scorpa were happy with 250cc. Beta have chosen 250cc 4t when they have a 270cc 2t. What i'm saying is unless you've Japanese power then you need a bigger displacement to match the jap engines. Valid point? Maybe Sherco started at 300+cc because they knew they would need at least that size for Cabby to ride it and didn't want to have to do a 250 then develop a 'competition' bike with more power? I would assume they will have to upgrade the Beta as well for top level competition ? It makes sense to have a larger 4t capacity than the 2t because the 2t produces more power!! All this talk about a clubman friendly bikes is a load of c**p. If this were the case why have we a 270cc Beta, 290cc Sherco, 300cc Gas Gas - not what you'd call clubman friendly bikes. I may be wrong about the Beta, but the chances are i'm not, its not going to have anymore go than the Mont 4rt and i found that bike lacking in Hill Leveling abilites with all the restrictors out, gearing lowered and a fast action throttle!! Edited November 18, 2006 by spud Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
munch Posted November 18, 2006 Report Share Posted November 18, 2006 all the talk , who has ordered one then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kinell Posted November 18, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 18, 2006 all the talk , who has ordered one then? I'm ready to order one but I need to know how much and when? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spud Posted November 18, 2006 Report Share Posted November 18, 2006 all the talk , who has ordered one then? I'm ready to order one but I need to know how much and when? buy it through me for ten grand (inc diamond geezer discount) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomant Posted November 18, 2006 Report Share Posted November 18, 2006 all the talk , who has ordered one then? I'm ready to order one but I need to know how much and when? You will order one without even trying it or seeing what the market feedback is and if it has any problems? I know someone who done that with a Sherco 4T Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorpa3 Posted November 18, 2006 Report Share Posted November 18, 2006 all the talk , who has ordered one then? I'm ready to order one but I need to know how much and when? You will order one without even trying it or seeing what the market feedback is and if it has any problems? I know someone who done that with a Sherco 4T I was SOOOO close to doing that very thing myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kinell Posted November 18, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 18, 2006 all the talk , who has ordered one then? I'm ready to order one but I need to know how much and when? You will order one without even trying it or seeing what the market feedback is and if it has any problems? Well, somebody has to be the crash test dummy and Barry is out of action so why not me? Plus, it's a Beta so it's bound to be good Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gizza5 Posted November 19, 2006 Report Share Posted November 19, 2006 It makes sense to have a larger 4t capacity than the 2t because the 2t produces more power!! All this talk about a clubman friendly bikes is a load of c**p. If this were the case why have we a 270cc Beta, 290cc Sherco, 300cc Gas Gas - not what you'd call clubman friendly bikes. What a load of c**p that statement is, people buy the bigger bikes because these bikes are put in the market place. All that power only suits a very small percentage of riders, people think they need it and thats the problem The 250 Beta, the 250 Gas Gas, 250 Sherco would suit 90% of riders, the big hill climb you are talking about crops up once in a blue moon, if you struggle to get up this one section and ride the rest better on a much softer more controlable bike then I suggest that this option for a lot of riders is better. I convinced a friend of mine, who is fairly useful at national level who has had 270 Beta's for a few years now to go for a 250 in 2006, he has just bought a 250 2007 model The beta 4 banger 250, like the Mont 4RT will be and is enough for most riders............... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomant Posted November 19, 2006 Report Share Posted November 19, 2006 all the talk , who has ordered one then? I'm ready to order one but I need to know how much and when? You will order one without even trying it or seeing what the market feedback is and if it has any problems? Well, somebody has to be the crash test dummy and Barry is out of action so why not me? Plus, it's a Beta so it's bound to be good Fair play, I hope your experience lives up to your expectations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomant Posted November 19, 2006 Report Share Posted November 19, 2006 Why does it have to have EFI? Modern motox and enduro bikes have been running trouble free on carbs for a long time now and on the bikes I've owned (Yam, KTM) I've never had problems of any kind. They haven't suddenly gone off tune and run fine whatever the weather. Why shouldn't the trials bike?The EFI is very impressive on the 4RT but it will still cough stall if ridden too slowly under load in a higher gear, just like any other 4 stroke. The biggest problem with that EFI set up for me though is the fact that the tickover is set at 1800rpm and can't be lowered much below that. I generally run my trials bikes with no tickover so that when I shut off the bike does too. The high tickover required by the 4RT EFI means that I can't drop it to snail pace when needed without dipping the clutch, it has to be ridden faster than I like in certain conditions. The Scorpa 4T I tried could be shut off almost to a standstill without using the clutch and ridden old fashioned style on the throttle alone. Same for the aircooled SY fourstrokes. Can't do that on the 4RT. No amount of messing with the PTB mapping can lower the tickover. If it had a normal tickover speed I couldn't fault it. The reason why I think that EFI is the future is quite simple. Carburetors have been round for ages and are at the end of the development curve. What you have now probably wont be much better in 5 years times. Now with EFI, the deveopment options are nearly endless. With virtually limitless set-up parameters and probably more to come. After the first year when peeps were wary of EFI on the the 4RT, its now regarded as a quality machine with virtually no problems in relation to fuel supply to the engine. Just bear that in mind. the 4RT, the first EFI mainstream trials machine is only a few years old and already it is a big success. The fickle trials community have accepted it Most cars can idle at 800 rpm with EFI so I would expect that future developments will see the high tickover currently experienced come down. I had my Sherco 4T on around 1400 rpm tickover to avoid the big fat fart at high torque/low speed/low rev situations so there isn't really much in it.. To compare with enduro and motox bikes is probably not a fair comparison. Where their requirements are at the complete opposite end of the spectrum to trials machines. IMHO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boofont Posted November 19, 2006 Report Share Posted November 19, 2006 problems like that crap Sherco had. Didn't take you soft ******s long to get to this stage did it!! grow up it's a game. Whoa! Handbags at dawn!! Apologies to all, I was trying to take a stab at Sherco or anyone who has/still does own one. I use the wrong word to describe a bike that in all honesty didn't work. Having re-read the post I can see how it reads. Sorry to all, still friends? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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