atomant Posted November 28, 2006 Report Share Posted November 28, 2006 copied from another thread.... When discussing EFI, we only have the 4RT to base our judgment on. Please remember it’s only in its 2nd Year whereas the carburetor has been round for yonks and they can’t even stop them from p***ing out fuel. EFI isn't even new technology, it was invented 1966 and is used on virtually all of today’s cars. It has endless possibilities for performance enhancement and fuel economy which a carburetor would never have the capability to match. I didn’t get on with the 4RT myself but I have an open mind on the bike. Honda know a bit about EFI and if anyone is gonna get it right, they will. Just give them more than 5 minutes to do it All 4'ts will eventually have EFI of that I'm sure and the earlier they(all manufacturers) bite the bullet and get on with it the better. IMHO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted November 28, 2006 Report Share Posted November 28, 2006 here's my two peneththe beta is the doupters way out so many of the guys that slaged of the monty and the sherco now have a way out they have realised they where so wrong slagging fourstrokes and now really want one,cos they are starting to win big uk trials,this gives them a way to own one and still slag the other brands!!!!! nice one beta four beats is better than two?????????? As one of the (apparent) silent majority Beta, Sherco Honda or Scorpa 4t hold little or no appeal and will not why the 2t is a bike they feel they can ride and look after easily. EFI or carb makes no difference, 19 pages and how many are rushing to place orders? Kinell and maybe one other? A trials rider that wants any 4t will have bought one by now surely? There is no massive demand for the beta despite all the chat. The 4rt has taken off a bit this year for clubman but whether it is because Sandifords lack of a real high profile team the winning of nationals has escaped them. It is not a case a slagging off 4t's just that they don't suit most, and it is not a completly better bike than anything else, historically the tywas a big leap forward and in its 3rd year everyone had one. Not so the 4rt. It is not a revolution and untill any 4t is lighter more powerful/ easier to ride they will never have a majority in trials. My nagging doubts are that a 4 year old 4rt is not desireable at all, and when they start to go wrong/wear out who will want the expensive repair bills. This I feel compouded by the repetitive dumping of old stock by appleyards will actually seep through to new sales and loosing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sideup Posted November 28, 2006 Report Share Posted November 28, 2006 Nigel, Have to agree with most of what you say. I am perfectly happy with my current two stroke, but am excited to see another new product introduced to the trials market. Clearly 4st trials bike haven't become a superior machine (better in all aspects) to the 2st, as demostrated by units sold. MX-perhaps a different story. Repair bills: Had a friend tell me the other day about his buddy trying to sell his 2003 Yamaha 4-stroke MX bike with a blown head. They priced the repair $1900. Value of bike on the market = $2300. Now trying to sell it as a part out bike. Good luck with that. Jump to conclusion story: Couple of us out riding Ishy's Sherco 4t on Saturday. It just died. Kick, kick, kick......... "Gas On?" "Yes I think so" "Sure?" Another Sherco rider: "Yeah, gas is on." Kick, Kick, Kick..... "Let Me try." "remember get it at top dead center" Kick, Kick, Kick All thinking , yes this is the unfamous problem we have heard about. 3rd rider trying Kick,kick, kick..... Go get Ishy. Ishy shows up... Looks at the petcock. "You guys had the gas off." Two kicks, bike starts and he rides away. End of story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kinell Posted November 28, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 28, 2006 I am perfectly happy with my current two stroke, but am excited to see another new product introduced to the trials market. That more or less sums it up for me too There's a few reasons why I want one of these bikes but the main reason is the punishing SSDT route next May. Last year and the year before, I had to wring the tits off of my Rev-3's to get round in time each day. Both bikes held out but I'm pretty sure they woudn't have appreciated a 7th day... The Monts had glowing reports off everyone who rode them around Scotland, easy to start, hardly any maintenance needed, fast down the road without having to torture the engine and superb on the moors (pick a gear and just go). I'm always taking the p*** about the 'fat lass' but I can't argue with the quality build and reliability of the bikes. I'm hoping that the new Beta also has the above traits but most of all, I hope that it is as reliable and as Tonka tough as the current 2 stroke bike. If it is then I'll be happy, if it isn't - I'll trade it in for an 07 Rev-3 instead. Only time will tell... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted November 28, 2006 Report Share Posted November 28, 2006 Brian don't get me wrong i am not saying you shouldn't get a 4t just that there is a limit to people who want these things and unless there is a real advantage, ie reliability as you say I just can't see where the market for them will be. beta or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the addict Posted November 28, 2006 Report Share Posted November 28, 2006 Nigel, there is a market if the bike is reliable and rides well, not huge granted but still a good market. As I have said previously this is the first time I have ever had any interest in a 4 stroke before, hate the Mont but the Beta looks a completely different approach. Lots of my mates are showing interest as well and to be fair we are 2 stroke fans through and through so the Rev 4t may be a big turning point for sales and Trials bikes in general (I hope so) One thing that really bothers me though is the 2 nd hand price and market for these bikes, I had a WR 450 from new as there was no way I wanted to chance buying one second hand, these 4 strokes go bang so does the wallet, a rebuild could well cost Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kinell Posted November 28, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 28, 2006 (edited) Apologies for the poor quality picture and traffic noise (mobile phone video) but here's Steve 'The Pimp' Saunders playing on his new thumper this afternoon... Edited November 28, 2006 by Kinell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felix Posted November 28, 2006 Report Share Posted November 28, 2006 Thanks for the low-res pic r2 Beautiful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dixie Posted November 29, 2006 Report Share Posted November 29, 2006 This re sale value thing crops up a lot the fact you can only get 2800 for a two year old mont,do the math as the yanks say 4400 ish new =2800 after two years =loss 1600 ==800 a year on this site there was an 06 gg 300 for 1795 3400 ish new =1795 after a year =1695 ==1695 a year in my book that is double the depreciation and there are plenty of 20 year pluss 4t hondas still doing weekly trials Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perce Posted November 29, 2006 Report Share Posted November 29, 2006 (edited) This re sale value thing crops up a lotthe fact you can only get 2800 for a two year old mont,do the math as the yanks say 4400 ish new =2800 after two years =loss 1600 ==800 a year on this site there was an 06 gg 300 for 1795 3400 ish new =1795 after a year =1695 ==1695 a year in my book that is double the depreciation and there are plenty of 20 year pluss 4t hondas still doing weekly trials you'll be lucky to get 2800 for an 06 mont at the moment, your maths is all wrong I'm afraid. Edited November 29, 2006 by PERCE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dixie Posted November 29, 2006 Report Share Posted November 29, 2006 still loses less than a gasser what ever way you look at it,and if you cant sell it it still works not many gassers even last two years,really good bike when fresh,but as we all know fall to bits after a year i think the second hand value of everthing is falling ,cars,bikes ,the lot its easy for a punter to walk into a shop and buy new,intrest free or on the plastic than stump up the readys for a second hand article.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomant Posted November 29, 2006 Report Share Posted November 29, 2006 If you keep the bike for 2 years and lose Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapshot 3 Posted November 29, 2006 Report Share Posted November 29, 2006 Interesting twist on this thread but very logical progression. Personally, I can't afford to think about a new anything much as Id love to therefore i'll just look and lust after it and hope I get a shot of one . However if you look at the second hand market there are some fantastic bikes around, let's face it, how many of us just let our bikes fall apart, we all value what we have too much. It's a cr4p situation for those intent on moving bikes on because the values are so flat, especially when dealers chuck year old bikes on the markets at hugely deflated prices. Depreciation is something everybody faces and it's a by product of buying new. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dale Posted November 29, 2006 Report Share Posted November 29, 2006 Hi, Just have to take issue with AAs maths - lose Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dixie Posted November 29, 2006 Report Share Posted November 29, 2006 slapshot thats all true if you do need a rebuild or spare parts you can allways buy a nearly new bike at a fraction of its new cost its all swings and roundabouts, my mate and his missus honestly spend more than 4000 a year on fags??????????? now if you ride trials and smoke thats really bad news Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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