neo Posted November 13, 2006 Report Share Posted November 13, 2006 Over the last couple of years I've heard, many times, how one bike has better traction (grip), on a steep or slippery climb, than another bike. A lot of this, I know, is to do with smooth power delivery to the rear wheel, but by no means all of it. The Sherco 250/290 is well know for having poor traction if you don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Posted November 13, 2006 Report Share Posted November 13, 2006 I don't know anything about the geometry of traction, but will be more than happy to discuss the physics of my finger hitting the ban button if you spam the same thing into multiple forums again... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ham2 Posted November 13, 2006 Report Share Posted November 13, 2006 (edited) I see you are judging your opinions on the 02 sherco (lack of grip that is). It's funny but that year model had the longest swing-arm and didn't grip as well as previous or later models. I had an 03 model and from what I remember it didn't matter where your weight was placed the back end gripped very well..I think the 03 had a shorter swing-arm. Just my opinion. Is that the sort of answer you were looking for? Edited November 13, 2006 by HAM2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapshot 3 Posted November 13, 2006 Report Share Posted November 13, 2006 (edited) Over the last couple of years I've heard, many times, how one bike has better traction (grip), on a steep or slippery climb, than another bike. A lot of this, I know, is to do with smooth power delivery to the rear wheel, but by no means all of it. The Sherco 250/290 is well know for having poor traction if you don Edited November 13, 2006 by Slapshot 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougie pumpkin Posted November 13, 2006 Report Share Posted November 13, 2006 Just because something has a longer swing arm. does not Necessarily mean it will have more grip. For example you could have a swing arm seven foot long, but if all your weight was at the front , would it grip, er, no it wouldn't. If you have a short swing arm it takes smaller differnces in movment backwards and forwards to make a difference in grip, flip or no traction . Its all down to weight distribution. Over the last couple of years I've heard, many times, how one bike has better traction (grip), on a steep or slippery climb, than another bike. A lot of this, I know, is to do with smooth power delivery to the rear wheel, but by no means all of it. The Sherco 250/290 is well know for having poor traction if you don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapshot 3 Posted November 13, 2006 Report Share Posted November 13, 2006 Will the calculator i got with my AXA Sunlife quote work this out might be pushing it a bit... don't those ones just calculate the bonuses the underwriters will fiddle you out of??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gaby Posted November 13, 2006 Report Share Posted November 13, 2006 I could be wrong, but seems like I remember seeing some sort of traction diagram in Bernies book "Observed Trials" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baldilocks Posted November 13, 2006 Report Share Posted November 13, 2006 All right leave him alone how about distance between gearbox sprocket and end of swinging arm is one issue (effect of engine weight) stroke of the engine is another issue ( a longer stroke engine will be less likely to break traction due to the number of times the piston goes past TDC per rotation of the wheel ) flywheel weight ( once you have the rear spinning you should be able to leave the throttle closed for longer to regain traction if the flywheel is heavier) back pressure through exhaust ( that popping noise when your engine is slowing down after being revved, similar to flywheel effect ) just two stroke ??? actual power ouput and also how smooth the power curve is . effect of rear suspension units ability to keep the wheel on the ground disregard tyre because in a back to back test you would have the same tyre on all the bikes. some combination of the above determines how a bike grips in my rather humble opinion............ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gasgas ross Posted November 13, 2006 Report Share Posted November 13, 2006 And it total contrast a GG Rookie will climb a hill as if it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coxy Posted November 13, 2006 Report Share Posted November 13, 2006 i personally think that its nothing to do with the tyre or anything like that and is to do with weight over the back end and how much torque the bike puts out, the little rookie 80 has alot of torque for a little engine and i have seen it go up hills better than the bigger bikes alot of times which is torque of the engine and the bigger bikes seeem not to have as much torque but more "revvy". in any case if you rev the bike it will find grip from somewhere its to do with the physics of the spinning rear wheel and tyre etc but am not going to go into that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ask greeves Posted November 14, 2006 Report Share Posted November 14, 2006 when i saw the title 'geometry of traction' my heart missed a beat, in anticipation that at last, some real input into what all trials riders want to find...GRIP, but after reading the thread...same old story, ALL talk and no action. I've been trying to master the intricacies of steering angles, fork lead, wheel base, swinging arm length for 30 years, not to mention 2 stroke tuning and guess what...i'm still learning, and i think i know less now than when i started. So a 80cc Gas Gas, has more torque than a 500 Ariel. I would suggest that if that thing that you wrap your right hand around, the throttle is used in the correct manor, rather than being an on/off switch, and you took the time to study a true trials rider, you would notice that they find grip, where others fail. If you spent more time riding your bike than walking, in the end you'd be a better rider than walker, The better riders use a taller gears, converting the power, and superior clutch control, to allow the maximum amount of power to the rear wheel, without loosing traction. Ok get yourself the lastest blinged trials bike, you can't buy success in trials, time spent over many many years off practice is the only way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveo Posted November 14, 2006 Report Share Posted November 14, 2006 I would suggest that if that thing that you wrap your right hand around, the throttle is used in the correct manor, rather than being an on/off switch, and you took the time to study a true trials rider, you would notice that they find grip, where others fail. If you spent more time riding your bike . The better riders use a taller gears, converting the power, and superior clutch control, to allow the maximum amount of power to the rear wheel, without loosing traction. time spent over many many years off practice is the only way. Good post greeves Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billyt Posted November 14, 2006 Report Share Posted November 14, 2006 Traction is obtained primarly on how one arranges the letters in the alphabet. To date the best order or combination of these letters has been Scorpa SY250F..... BillyT S4RT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
copemech Posted November 14, 2006 Report Share Posted November 14, 2006 There seems to be an obvious solution to a complex problem here. There are many variables that may all result in the same solution, RIDE WHAT YOU BRUNG AND RIDE IT WELL, IT WILL WORK! (if you know how to use it) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billyt Posted November 14, 2006 Report Share Posted November 14, 2006 Well said Mark........... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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