miked Posted November 15, 2006 Report Share Posted November 15, 2006 Has anybody tried a Mitani clutch yet, my 06 repsol is impossible to find neutral when with the engine running. Any advise please. Miked Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
masso Posted November 15, 2006 Report Share Posted November 15, 2006 Has anybody tried a Mitani clutch yet, my 06 repsol is impossible to find neutral when with the engine running. Any advise please.Miked yes, I have the mitani clutch...it works miricles !! bike goes into neutral very easy[when engine running]...when not running, its impossible!! be sure to use the recommended tranny oil...................................I feel your pain! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsp Posted November 15, 2006 Report Share Posted November 15, 2006 before you go to all that messing about, i would try the larger master cylinder i have just fitted one to my 05 4rt and is like a new bike, starts better in gear, finds netural better, and is so much smoother and a lot less on off, as recommend by sandifords mechanic. cost about Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miked Posted November 15, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 15, 2006 Thanks JSP, Any part numbers, to make it easier miked Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subira Posted November 15, 2006 Report Share Posted November 15, 2006 (edited) I had the Master and the Mitani Clutch pack on my old 05 RT. I have to say that the Mitani pack and decent oil makes the biggest difference. If he clutch pack is to wide and drags it doesn't matter what master you put on its going to do the same. IMHO I don't think you get any more travel out of the bigger master, it just makes the clutch action smoother. If drag is the problem then the clutch has to disengage more cleanly, so you have the steels spinning freely within the friction plates - the Mitani pack has various thickness of friction plate and for whatever reason this works better than the standard set up. I heard that 06 had a change of friction material (its a different part #), but having ridden an 06, I had a better set up. I notice you have an 06 Repsol - this means an 05 clutch if I'm not mistaken. Edited November 15, 2006 by Subira Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miked Posted November 16, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2006 Just learned that fact today, we are talking about fitting the five plates from the 06 standard 4rt. Seemingly theyhave grooved plates to allow more oil to flow or some thing, and if this is no better go Mitani. Cheers Mikd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsp Posted November 16, 2006 Report Share Posted November 16, 2006 miked, check that fact about the grooved plates with sandifords because when i rang i was all for changing the full clutch to an 06 one, geoff there mechanic told me that out of three sets of plates only one is different between the 05 and 06 and that they were fibre. he told me if the larger cylinder didnt fix it just take the clutch apart and emery cloth all the faces of the steel plates dont bother to go for the 06 plates you wont need it, and he was bang on. jsp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hughesy Posted November 16, 2006 Report Share Posted November 16, 2006 (edited) The part No for the 315 master cylinder is 22880 NN3 830. I ordered one on Wed and had it in the post today ( Thursday) cost was Edited November 16, 2006 by Hughesy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
windlestone Posted November 20, 2006 Report Share Posted November 20, 2006 I don't get the 315 bigger master cylinder theory. The master cylinder is bigger but you use the same hoses and couplings therefore the outlet is the same bore. All your doing is adding a bigger reservoir and fooling yourself into thinking you've spent your brass so it has to be better. can anyone explain how a 315 cylinder can make an improvement? my only gripe is my clutch bites when the lever is almost all the way out i'd like it to bite a bit nearer the bars to rest my tired finger a bit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirhc Posted November 20, 2006 Report Share Posted November 20, 2006 I just picked up my new Montesa and rode a event on it yesterday, it already had a Mitani clutch installed and the larger master cylinder. The clutch felt as nice as any bike I have ridden and as I found out in my first day of riding it would start in gear as long as I rolled it back and forth once or twice to break the clutch loose. How much is the master cylinder and how much is the clutch plates I don't know, but it all felt good to me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cota kid Posted November 20, 2006 Report Share Posted November 20, 2006 There was a definite difference when I put a bigger MC on my Repsol, not sure as to the practicalities of why. I also recently tried a friends 4RT with the Mitani plates and the larger MC and couldn't tell any difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gii Posted November 20, 2006 Report Share Posted November 20, 2006 (edited) I have a 2005 4RT. I did not like the clutch when I bought the bike and despite my expounded opinion that the cluch was for pulling away, changing gear, and parking, I decide I had to do something to improve it When I bought the 315 master cylinder from Sandifords, they confirmed that it had a smaller bore than the standard 4RT master cylinder. This would mean that a full stroke of the clutch lever / master cylinder results in a shorter stroke at the slave cylinder / clutch actuating mechanism. This should improve feel and sensitivity at the clutch lever reducing the 'on / off' feel of the standard clutch. The downside is that it would reduce the amount the plates are disengaged by at full stroke, making the clutch potentially more draggy and therefore it would be harder to find neutral or start the bike in gear. The size of the fluid reservoir on top of the master cylinder has NO effect on the operation of the clutch at all, it could be the size of a pint bottle or a sugar cube . Making it smaller just means you have to top it up more often when bleeding. It also reduces the capacity of the system and (very marginally) its ability to compensate for worn clutch plates. Regular maintenance removes this concern entirely. IMHO the clutch is the poorest feature in an otherwise exceptional clubmans trials bike. Without the ridiculously expensive oil recommended in the manual the bike cannot be started in gear reliably and neutral is 'difficult' to find, even with the recommended oil the clutch will shriek and vibrate if slipped for more than a couple of seconds. The oil recommended to me by Sandifords, I found, gave a lovely smooth clutch action but totally prevented starting in gear, made neutral 'really difficult' to find and it shrieked even more when slipped. I've gone back to the oil recommended in the manual combined with the 315 master cylinder. The clutch action is sharper than I'd like, but is a lot more controllable than standard. The bike can be started in gear whilst half way up a waterfall, and I can get neutral if I work at it (or use my hand). That very expensive gear oil pours (and smells) like hydraulic oil, anyone had it analysed? I no longer have that facility. Edited November 21, 2006 by GII Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimsshed Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 (edited) A shrieking clutch would indicate something is wrong with it. I've never heard a 4RT clutch do this. The on/off clutch on my 06 4RT was cured by a tip given to me by Tarp, our Australian importer. It was simply to back off the actuating pin's adjusting screw at the lever as far as possible. This has the effect of changing the leverage dynamics as you pull in the clutch. I was astounded at the difference. My clutch is now nicely progressive whereas before it was very on/off. There is still plenty of room to disengage with one finger without crushing my other fingers between the handgrip and lever. It did not affect the ability to start in gear. Tarp says if I want even more adjustment, to remove (grind off) 1 to 2 mm from the actuating pin. I haven't needed to do this cos' I like it as it is. I also slid the clutch lever assembly further in along the bar so that when I reach out with two fingers, they touch just inside the knob on the lever's end. This of course increases the arc length, and reduces required effort. Jim Edited November 21, 2006 by JimsShed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trialsurfer Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 Cut or grind off 3mm if the clutch plunger and re-radius it , allows the lever to be closer to the bar! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ham2 Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 I've missed something here..when it comes to the overall effect...what's the difference between backing off the adjuster and grinding off the end of the adjuster?? Please keep the answer simple Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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