Novogar Clubmans Championship.

[atomant]

Great reply Chris and its a pleasure to have someone of your calibre posting on the forums

Something that would be nice to see from some other top riders so we can find out what they really think..

Keep it up

[ralph]

See where you are coming from, but the novogars are one route trials for a reason, perhaps John COLLINS can explain the reason for this?

I know but i am selfish. We drive for hours at the weekends to do 1 or 2 lap trials and there is one on our door step and its to hard for us. Is 1 route realy better than 2 routes, i'm sorry i just can not see the point of 1 route apart from lack of good sections for the better riders.

[woody]

Great reply Chris and its a pleasure to have someone of your calibre posting on the forums

Something that would be nice to see from some other top riders so we can find out what they really think..

Keep it up

You may be surprised at the views of another of our top national riders. Have a look at the Hillsborough Club's website and see what Dan Thorpe was trying to propose for 2007. Some good ideas here but his view on the current WTC/Euro and British Championships may not be what you'd think. Seems he sent this out to relevant clubs and was then going to air it at the ACU forum but as that was cancelled not sure if it ever got any further.

hillsboroughtrials

Then look at the link for "New British Trials Championship Format ? Have your say!!!"

[scorpa3]

Well... doesn't that link very nicely with this thread.

If this was going to be raised at the cancelled ACU forum, I am kicking myself even harder for not putting my name down to attend.

[chris]

I think Dan intends on raising that at the British championship forum, I'm not sure when this is or even if it's still going to go ahead but it's a seperate forum to the one that was cancled.

Cheers

Chris

[bdmc]

Reading the majority of comments one of the concerns is the numbers entering the trial, 160= is you have a clubman route etc

What about the damage to the land? Not just the trial route but the parking area the lanes around which the back up vans block. The sport is now in the situation where the green brigade etc want to stop us enjoying ourselvs riding about the countryside. The larger the entry the more damage to the land/area. Just the evidence the the anti bike brigade need to stop our sport.

Maybe there are to many c/ships and Nationals. What about only 6 rounds of all c/ships, including Youth ( The ACU along with the clubs interested to decide where and when. (Yes I belive there are enough people in the clubs who can work together with the ACU to sort out)

Those of the clubs who dont get a c/ship round can run thier own National trial (If they have one) with 1/2/or 3 courses if required. The CoC can then make the couse as easy or as hard as he/she likes. The riders will then support the trial that he can ride without causing himself damage or if he/she requires can have a challange.

Dont forget to continue to use land we HAVE to look after it. 100+ riders in the National parks or around a village on a wet Sunday does damage the land. It then makes it harder when re-applying for the next year.

100+ riders makes the club finances healthy but with land becoming scarce to run our sport what good is the money?

[scorpa3]

Reading the majority of comments one of the concerns is the numbers entering the trial, 160= is you have a clubman route etc

What about the damage to the land? Not just the trial route but the parking area the lanes around which the back up vans block. The sport is now in the situation where the green brigade etc want to stop us enjoying ourselvs riding about the countryside. The larger the entry the more damage to the land/area. Just the evidence the the anti bike brigade need to stop our sport.

Maybe there are to many c/ships and Nationals. What about only 6 rounds of all c/ships, including Youth ( The ACU along with the clubs interested to decide where and when. (Yes I belive there are enough people in the clubs who can work together with the ACU to sort out)

Those of the clubs who dont get a c/ship round can run thier own National trial (If they have one) with 1/2/or 3 courses if required. The CoC can then make the couse as easy or as hard as he/she likes. The riders will then support the trial that he can ride without causing himself damage or if he/she requires can have a challange.

Dont forget to continue to use land we HAVE to look after it. 100+ riders in the National parks or around a village on a wet Sunday does damage the land. It then makes it harder when re-applying for the next year.

100+ riders makes the club finances healthy but with land becoming scarce to run our sport what good is the money?

160+ I wish! We are as pleased as anything when one of our Nationals crack the 100 mark, I really don't think adding a B route would attract another 60 or more riders. In any case the Colmore is run in March and there would not be enough daylight to have an entry over 160. We would have a maximum upper limit of 120.

As for the land damage. Yes I agree we need to be concious of wear and traffic jams, however just remember each rider only goes through the section once. Therefore in the Colmore a 120 rider entry would only cause the same damage to the ground as a 30 rider club trial doing four laps. And I don't think any of us consider that to be excessive.

Finally and as I have stated earlier in this thread, we aren't here to make money, we just need to make sure we don't run at a loss and last years non-championship single route Colmore, came close to loosing the club money. To turn your question around, what good is the land if there is no club willing to run the trial?

We must strive for a happy medium. Considering the land owners and other country users, whilst continuing to make the event a pleasure to organise, observe at and ride in. Plus it has to be economicaly viable.

Edited November 23, 2006 by scorpa3

[john collins]

Thought I had covered this before

[gasserman]

if you look at the novogar results and the expert results its pretty much the same thing all the same names everytime and 1 is even doing the big class. i cant see anything but experts riders in both champs the acu needs to stop british experts riding the novogar its become the same thing

[ralph]

Great reply John but WHO will do something about it and WHAT will they be doing about it.

Or is something being done already and by who and i've just missed the jiffs of it all or what

It sound like a snotty questions but it dosen't mean to be honest.

[scorpa3]

John,

Thank you once again for taking the time to explain the situation. I do realise that you had already written a comprehensive reply on this subject. I suspect the large number of posts is putting people off reading every page, therefore you are being asked the same thing more than once.

As the opening poster in this thread I am quite happy that my original question has been answered in full.

My interest stems from the Colmore cup in March, I will take the points made in this thread back to the organising members of the club and I will do my best to ensure that we run a really good event in 2007.

Thanks to everyone who has contributed to this thread, I for one have found it most informative.

To sum up. We (the organising clubs) MUST endevour to set out the Novogar rounds suitable for the riders for which the series is intended. And that is good club riders and not established National stars.

I am confident that we can and will do this and anyone riding in the Colmore will enjoy a great event.

Pete Barnett

[nigel dabster]

If dates allow I will enter the colmore next year and havn't ridden it for rather longer then I care to think.

[chris]

John

I'm guessing from your post that you don't think I and a few of the other riders currently doing the novogar's should be eligible, if this is the case then why not change the rules for who is eligible?

At the moment there is a lot of very good riders competing and they

[john collins]

Definitely not against riders like you being able to ride - and definately not against anyone scoring points - if they are not deemed to be ineligible because of their performance in higher Championships.

We are not actually adverse there being a separate Expert Championship - this can certainly be discussed for 2008 - what we are absolutely agains however is trying to turn the Novogar into it. If I remeber - this thread started by asking about two routes - and now we are talking about it becoming an " Expert " Championship ? I retain my view that the Novogar Championship is not for this.

If it is deemed there is a need for a separate Expert Championship - so be it - but it needs a lot of discussion - if only from a point of trying to squeeze even more Championship events into an already heavily overcrowded calander.

It is also more valid I think if the argument is based on your point of the Experts having a separate Championship dedicated to them - but can this argument be made without a diversion off into the " marking rules" which then cloud the issue? If an exert Championship is needed - then it is needed regardles of rules.

There well may be an argument - in the same way that I indicated the Clubman would be regarded as an " add on" to say the the Experts are an " add -on " to the British Championship - I could accept this argument as it may well be valid - and this should be tha starting point.

What is certainly not valid is for those who do not like or agree with the current British Championship - basically because they will never accept anything other than full no-stop rules , to constantly rubbish it and decry the efforts of those who work very hard to put it on.

Most of these organisers regard the British Expert Championship - as exactly that - an Expert Championship.

Contrary to some views they are not just keen to run the Brit Champ for the stars - if for no other reason than many of their own Club members or riders from that area can compete in it - and others in the club can associate with them - not always the majority case in the top class if you are not from Yorkshire

Certainly - in contrast to some of the piffle spouted by a few - there are usually quite a few Experts who wish to contest it - and figures show that the number of Experts who compete is on the increase - although it is accepted that they do not all contest all of the rounds.

We also heard at its concept - strangley at times from people who now like to decry the Brit Champ format - that Britain should follow suit of other countries and allow our best Youth riders to compete on the Expert sections and be able to judge their performance accordingly?

With a separte Expert Championship - presumably incorporating road events - this goes out the window?

A few months ago I read with interest - again from a few Brit Cham knockers - and without making comment myself - how the current British Championship would never get TV coverage ? I also read with interest how the ACU needs to promote Trials etc.

After a little work - and yet more time by a few of us - TV coverage took place at the last Brit Champ round - and I hope for more of same in future.

I have not yet been able to find the post from the people who deemed it would never happen stating the they may have been wrong.

If we are honest - we know that the number of riders who contest the top class of the Brit Solo Champ will be limited - no question - and not particular to just our sport.

If we are honest we have to admit that it needs the Expert Championship as part of it.

If we are honest - we must remeber that the current Brit Champ was also seen as a way of giving those who intended to contest the World and UEM events a first step on the ladder - and certainly some of the Youth and Expert riders have moved up the ladder. It has to be admitted however that equally quite a few move down - but is this not the way in all sports?

Would the Champ run in its present format just catering for the Champ class - almost certainly not - again back to the numbers game - and again not particular to our sport.

So - if we wish to harp on about how bad the Brit Champ is - and if we wish those who would like to see its demise so they can get their way - be default in my opinion - fine - this could well hapen - for I know for sure many of the Organisers are sick to their back teeth of the critisicm and carping of a few.

All this can be done - but let none of us have the hypocrisy to think we are doing it for the overall good of the sport other than for our own ends.

[trialsboy48]

Whats the rule as to who is eligible for points? If you have won it before are you not allowed to ride again (for points)?