Rules Are Rules

[Andy]

Perhaps it's time the FIM started running the WTC again, junk the promoter (WTC round in Guatemala or wherever it is...!!??) cut the costs and get the sport closer to it's roots and allow more riders to participate. Surely the clubs and governing body of each country can organise a world round without the need of promoters.

There is no overall promoter for the outdoor championship. Only the indoor uses a promoter (and look at the a**e they make of it year after year...)

[slapshot 3]

How does money, more public interest and TV solve the problem of only half a dozen riders being capable of tackling WTC sections?

Personally I don't give two ticks for what goes on in WTC but the problems as I see them are that riding techniques and bikes have advanced so far that there are only a few people who are ever going to master the techniques required to tackle those sections with any degree of success. The rules are a joke, they aren't enforced properly, most outdoor sections that I've seen on TV coverage resemble indoor type - man-made, big rocks and rev splat, rev splat over and over again - public are really going to take to that, it's like watching the same section over and over with the exception of a couple of rounds. Poland and Hawkstone where they had something resembling sections.

If it went back to proper no-stop and the rules were enforced correctly, perhaps they could get back towards more natural type sections where the riders actually ride their bikes instead of hopping around like demented frogs. Sections would be less extreme, still very hard as befits a world championship but would at least offer some variety, mistakes would be penalised by losing marks as they wouldn't be able to hop their way out of trouble and more riders could take part. Ban minders - whatever happened to man and machine against the terrain - and leave the riders to sort their own lines out and get through sections without continual outside assistance.

It will never happen of course as that original concept of one no-stop attempt at a section is no longer fashionable and doesn't fit with today's circus - not posey enough - but is the circus ruunning out of performers - and will anyone care in due course

In the 70s, 80s and 90s, WTC enjoyed healthy entries without the need for big name sponsorship and TV so why does it need it now?

i'm with woody on this one.

Another thread on these boards has been discussing the '83 Scottish. I remember the top section on Ben Nevis that year, two cleans Martin Lampkin and Bernie Schrieber, that was it. Long straight wide section with a big step in the middle awkward run in, didn't nee to be any harder than that.

This year, Jarvis won on 14 marks next closest was 24. Rules: No Stop tough sections all the same though.

WTC has gotten so far away from the reality of trials that it's unlikely to come back unless the FIM look at and enforce NO STOP, It is the only way that WTC will start to increase entires across the classes. The Scottish is a good indicator of that.

Whether TV comes in or not, Sponsorship will only fall to the top two or three riders, it never does filter it's way down, same in every sport unless it's a headline sponsor, like the premiership. Money filtering down is part of the rules.

It brings the old arguement back but No Stop really is the best way forward..no pun intended

Edited November 22, 2006 by Slapshot 3

[scorpa3]

How does money, more public interest and TV solve the problem of only half a dozen riders being capable of tackling WTC sections?

Personally I don't give two ticks for what goes on in WTC but the problems as I see them are that riding techniques and bikes have advanced so far that there are only a few people who are ever going to master the techniques required to tackle those sections with any degree of success. The rules are a joke, they aren't enforced properly, most outdoor sections that I've seen on TV coverage resemble indoor type - man-made, big rocks and rev splat, rev splat over and over again - public are really going to take to that, it's like watching the same section over and over with the exception of a couple of rounds. Poland and Hawkstone where they had something resembling sections.

If it went back to proper no-stop and the rules were enforced correctly, perhaps they could get back towards more natural type sections where the riders actually ride their bikes instead of hopping around like demented frogs. Sections would be less extreme, still very hard as befits a world championship but would at least offer some variety, mistakes would be penalised by losing marks as they wouldn't be able to hop their way out of trouble and more riders could take part. Ban minders - whatever happened to man and machine against the terrain - and leave the riders to sort their own lines out and get through sections without continual outside assistance.

It will never happen of course as that original concept of one no-stop attempt at a section is no longer fashionable and doesn't fit with today's circus - not posey enough - but is the circus ruunning out of performers - and will anyone care in due course

In the 70s, 80s and 90s, WTC enjoyed healthy entries without the need for big name sponsorship and TV so why does it need it now?

i'm with woody on this one.

Another thread on these boards has been discussing the '83 Scottish. I remember the top section on Ben Nevis that year, two cleans Martin Lampkin and Bernie Schrieber, that was it. Long straight wide section with a big step in the middle awkward run in, didn't nee to be any harder than that.

This year, Jarvis won on 14 marks next closest was 24. Rules: No Stop tough sections all the same though.

WTC has gotten do far away from the reality of trials that it's unlikely to come back unless the FIM look at and enforce NO STOP, It is the only way that WTC will start to increase entires across the classes. The Scottish is a good indicator of that.

Whether TV comes in or not, Sponsorship will only fall to the top two or three riders, it never does filter it's way down, same in every sport unless it's a headline sponsor, like the premiership. Money filtering down is part of the rules.

It brings the old arguement back but No Stop really is the best way forward..no pun intended

I agree too. Go back to non stop and have everyone using the same rules.

[ishy]

In most motor sports, the competitor can navigate the course without failing, and the result at the end of the day comes down to who can navigate it the fastest.

In order to take points off the top few in world trials, the course is made so difficult that most can't navigate the course, and unlike other motor sports, they don't just finish the course slower than the winner, they fail most of the sections in front of many spectators.

How long would you ride in front of large groups of spectators, if all you did was look inadequate in front of them.

Doug, Jordi, Raga, Fuji, may be brilliant riders, but they have in fact raised the bar beyond most, and on the course in competition top three or four have an unfair advantage over the lower ranked riders, not just ability, but! machinery, team support, and bias.

I don't think it's the FIM who are totally to blame, in the case of trials, I think there is a fair amount of the tail wagging the Dog.

[2fargone]

Ban minders - whatever happened to man and machine against the terrain - and leave the riders to sort their own lines out and get through sections without continual outside assistance.

Yeah ban minders it's all their fault, what do they call that bloody tart that started all this minding mallarky off anyway????????

Somebody Miller I think he was called, whatever became of him is he still involved in the sport in anyway, I doubt it he's probably in LA or somewhere making dodgy movies.

[judyf]

im with woody and timp, trials should go back to proper trials, even world trials in the early 90's was far better than the sport today(when the rules were still stop un hop & riders were in sections for like 10mins), its a joke, dont think we will ever see trials go no-stop again(only because the top lads refuse to ride) but certinly alter the sections and make them more like trials, over the course of 15sections not every section has to be the same, where a good standard national rider will 5 every section on the 1st 10ft rock step, you can have 5 ultra hard world standard sections to sort the top lads out, and then the rest just a good standard section,

1) better to watch (how good is it in the scottish when someone like raga/dabil/pascuet gets into mega trouble but manages to save it andnot stop! thats proper trials abilty!

2) more riders

3) more interest

4) save trials(beacause if it carrys on it doesnt matter how good our young trials riders are guna be a world level because the world rounds are goin to end up with 5riders on the main route, all the others either retired or broken all the bones in there body trying silly sections or just cant be a***d with all the expense)

yeah raga, best hopper un bopper in 2006, but if he rode a proper trial! like lets say same kind of sections as the 1990 british world round but no-stop he wouldnt win, why cant there be 10rounds with all the rounds been different, a couple of rounds in winter and muddy, some in summer on big rocks, and then natural jack wood type trial sections r scotland, world trials is a circus, we dont need media attention because its never guna catch on,

1) its not racing

2) its normaly cold & wet

3) we dont hardly get specters (people who do trials love trials but, people who dont, dont care)

4) trials is a real man / women against machine(trials started out as "realiabilty trials" )

not having 3lil spains guys running around after wiping your a*** un that every 5mins

but, its never going to happen, but we could change it a british level as the brit champs is going the same way, ive heard talk about people wanting all the 27british national events through the year to all go towards a championship, and have a "british national championship"

1) more riders

2)more mony for clubs

3)more money for trials

4)keep the exsiting british champs running aswell as this will be a seperate championship as the rider will 1st have to get a good number, then be consistant over the one lap course, over the whole year to win a championship, yes we have the novagar which is good, you can have that running aswell, or have this championship called "british novagar national championship" 27 rounds (all the british nationls) over the year for an overall national champion, what u think??????????????????????????????????????????????????

it can only be good for the sport as the victory or lomax or peak are really good trials and people put alot of effort in to get like 60riders when if the championship got alot of intrest you could have 120riders!!! lets try to save clubs and money for clubs/ trials, & what do we get, "a proper BRITISH NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP"

have your say, and mr collins what you think????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

[ishy]

Poor bugger must er run out of wind them boffin's drinking all our entry fees wi ACU brass!! a't blame if tha asks me.

[jack_h]

I think it would be a stupid idea banning minders. with sections as dangerous as they are riders are going to get seriously hurt. change the sections and then scrap the minder!!

jack h