sr34 Posted January 17, 2007 Report Share Posted January 17, 2007 well so much for fingers crossed the bike is back at colin appleyards for the second time in a week with the same exact fault it had from new plug fouling i am realy disapointed with the bike at present as i heard so many good things about the 4rt before i bought this bike i will leave it at that for the moment but will keep you all informed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rapid roy Posted January 18, 2007 Report Share Posted January 18, 2007 well so much for fingers crossed the bike is back at colin appleyards for the second time in a week with the same exact fault it had from new plug fouling i am realy disapointed with the bike at present as i heard so many good things about the 4rt before i bought this bike i will leave it at that for the moment but will keep you all informed Similar problem with mine at the start It kills plugs Runs very rich, popping and banging The beast needs to be warm before riding I normally start the engine then put my riding gear on This way over the last six months it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monty-python Posted January 18, 2007 Report Share Posted January 18, 2007 Mines a 06, it too runs rich Soot everywhere in the exhaust, and plugs changed regularly Tried standard, and mitani pipe, both full of soot. Doesn't seem to affect the running of it, i'm just curious what gives, is it a glitch with the injection system? Does the PTB sort it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sr34 Posted January 18, 2007 Report Share Posted January 18, 2007 well i see its not just me with this problem then collin appleyards still have the bike with the programable throttle body but as of yet no word ?? just out of curiosity can any people with the 05 models confirm if this problem affects there bikes or is it an 06 fault ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mathew Posted January 18, 2007 Report Share Posted January 18, 2007 I have an '05 that I bought used - and I fouled a plug within minutes. As mentioned above - make sure to let these bikes warm up WITHOUT applying any quick blips of throttle. While not as bad as my plug eating WR400F was, the programming is apparently ragged edge rich and when cold the plug is easily fouled. I think sometimes EFI is confused with perfect optimized combustion - not so. EFI is programmed for various conditions and Honda has obviously programmed this to feel responsive and never caugh or hesitate - but to get there means plenty rich. The WR was exactly the same way with an accelerator pump carb - if the throttle was whacked open a couple of times while the bike was still cold it was all over. The somewhat natural reaction if a bike starts missing when cold is to start blipping the throttle - but when its setup (either via EFI or an accel pump) to provide an extra rich mixture when blipped this ends up making things worse. Instead, let it idle or apply gradual steady load to get warmed up. I also switched to the optional hotter "5" heat range plug and have ran it for the past year without issue. Even on hot days I've not heard a bit of knocking so I think the 6 that comes stock is a bit conservative on the cold side and adds to the issue. Mathew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kinell Posted January 18, 2007 Report Share Posted January 18, 2007 I'm sure that if you rang Sandifords and asked to speak to their mechanic (Geoff?), he would tell you what's what... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donmurray Posted January 19, 2007 Report Share Posted January 19, 2007 A comment on the rich condition being discussed. I've done some thinking about adapting modern 4T engines to the unique demands of trials. One of the problems is that a 4T engine can be easily stalled at low rpm if the throttle is quickly opened wide. Maybe the mfgs are trying to prevent this with a max rich mixture. This would reduce the instant lean that occurs when fuel cannot respond as quickly as air. Not a big problem when the rpms are up, but in thump mode just one gulp of lean mixture can be a big surprise. You get drag when you expected thrust. When you wack the throttle on a 2T engine there's a fresh, correct ratio, mixture just waiting in the crankcase. 4T engines may need to use a computer controlled throttle, or direct injection to make them more stall proof. You would think injection in the port near the valve would handle it. From a 4T lover Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rapid roy Posted January 19, 2007 Report Share Posted January 19, 2007 A comment on the rich condition being discussed. I've done some thinking about adapting modern 4T engines to the unique demands of trials. One of the problems is that a 4T engine can be easily stalled at low rpm if the throttle is quickly opened wide. Maybe the mfgs are trying to prevent this with a max rich mixture. This would reduce the instant lean that occurs when fuel cannot respond as quickly as air. Not a big problem when the rpms are up, but in thump mode just one gulp of lean mixture can be a big surprise. You get drag when you expected thrust. When you wack the throttle on a 2T engine there's a fresh, correct ratio, mixture just waiting in the crankcase. 4T engines may need to use a computer controlled throttle, or direct injection to make them more stall proof. You would think injection in the port near the valve would handle it. From a 4T lover I HAVE AN 06 4RT THEY DO RUN RICH (COLD) THEY FOUL PLUGS RUNNING FROM COLD ANYONE WITH A PTB CAN CHANGE THE AIR/FUEL MIX ITS VERY VERY HARD TO STALL A 4RT I WISH SOMEONE WOULD LET YOU RIDE A 4RT THEN COMMENT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ludde Posted January 19, 2007 Report Share Posted January 19, 2007 (edited) We're running my dad's 05 4rt on -8% compaired to the original setting and it runs as well as before. Cleaned the plug before training and after the whole day it still looked newly cleaned, no soot at all. But it should be said that we don't use normal petrol but alkylate petrol, more info here. But I think with normal petrol you could decrease to about -3-4% without problems, it also helps starting as the 05 can be a bi**h to start some times with the normal setting. Edited January 19, 2007 by Ludde Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rapid roy Posted January 19, 2007 Report Share Posted January 19, 2007 We're running my dad's 05 4rt on -8% compaired to the original setting and it runs as well as before. Cleaned the plug before training and after the whole day it still looked newly cleaned, no soot at all.But it should be said that we don't use normal petrol but alkylate petrol, more info here. But I think with normal petrol you could decrease to about -3-4% without problems, it also helps starting as the 05 can be a bi**h to start some times with the normal setting. alkylate petrol, THATS NEWS TO ME HOW COMMON IS THE FUEL ARE THERE DEALERS IN UK & IRELAND ? ANY IDEA WHAT PRICE PER 5 LITRE'S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carl ekblom Posted January 19, 2007 Report Share Posted January 19, 2007 alkylate petrol,THATS NEWS TO ME HOW COMMON IS THE FUEL ARE THERE DEALERS IN UK & IRELAND ? ANY IDEA WHAT PRICE PER 5 LITRE'S Dealers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dixie Posted January 19, 2007 Report Share Posted January 19, 2007 My bike is an 06,and we have had this topic before,alot of you two stroke boys still feel the need to clear out your bikes,two strokes oil up when on tickover for a long time and some need a blast to clean out, the monty on the other hand allways runs clean,just try to get out of the habbit. some of the younguns down here rev the nuts off there bikes from cold 2 and 4 stroke,all engines need a warm up,the fourstrokes especialy,as seen by the clouds of smoke they billow when abused. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ludde Posted January 19, 2007 Report Share Posted January 19, 2007 Alkylate petrol is often used in chainsaws and lawnmovers here in Sweden. Thats because it gives much cleaner exhaust gases and is much nicer to work with as it almost doesn't smell at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jza Posted January 23, 2007 Report Share Posted January 23, 2007 Some of the early 2007 models started to crack around the head tube. Montesa decided to weld on braces to the batch they'd already produced, and painted them with a spray can by the sounds of it - so there was a "quality" issue too. The new frames are ok. Jza Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rapid roy Posted January 23, 2007 Report Share Posted January 23, 2007 Some of the early 2007 models started to crack around the head tube.Montesa decided to weld on braces to the batch they'd already produced, and painted them with a spray can by the sounds of it - so there was a "quality" issue too. The new frames are ok. Jza any chance of a photo of the braced frame cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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