Kinda Quiet

[paulthistle]

It sounds like an empty room in here!

I hope some of you are gifted enough to be interesting without being censorable due to unstroked ego.

"Lets Roll!"

[sting32]

where are the Lanes world archived at?

I paid support here, and I really liked to hear what was posted in not every forum here, but definitely in the LW forum, what is up?

[jaylael]

Lane's world was deleted after he was accused of slagging off the NATC and Wiltz Wagner, (for the umpteenth time) and then did not respond to these accusations. The bulk of previous comments by Lane have apparently been cast off into the ether. Andy had stated that personal attacks would not be tolerated, and Lane's comments were percieved as personal attacks, so there you go.

I for one miss Lane's comments, agree with them or not they were usually very entertaining. I also discovered in reading the posts which were made pro and con at the eleventh hour, that Lane has a fair handful of enemies. I guess this shouldn't surprise me, but it does. I have had occasion to talk with Lane in person and on the internet quite a number of times, and although he has made me mad a time or two I still like him. Unfortunately this is not the case for some others.

Perhaps Lane will show up and ride trials in person and forget about the internet. I know the vast majority of real trials riders can't be bothered about what is said on these forums. I hope Lane takes a lesson from these people and lets his riding speak for itself. I think that would be the best thing for him to do at this point. I hope to see ya' sometime, Lane. JL

[city trials]

Perhaps Lane will show up and ride trials in person and forget about the internet.

Hear-Hear. A couple of months ago, I ventured some 5000 miles to ride a local ATA southern California event. Both Lane and Bingo were a no show. What's up with that?

[paulthistle]

I thought Lane answered pieces of the quesions multiple times after Andy asked them. But he answered them in different threads and woven in other diatribe....er..enterainment. I didn't see any quotes around the specific statements leading up to the allegations. But since Lane would not address Andy directly in the appropiate thread, addressing the charges point for point, who cares. You either have to admit you were wrong and apoligize, or produce evidence to support your case. He was willing to go on and on about what "They" should do, but not even a paragraph to "set things right"?

[slapshot 3]

Just to round these comments off with the Forum Moderator hat on, no personal opinion. (if Andy delete's then so be it)

We received a complaint from, I believe, a very much respected member of the US trials community regarding Lane's continual acccusations and personal attacks. Andy gave Lane chances to back his claims up and to answer the accusations. When Lane did not respond within in a generous timescale the Forum was removed.

The Forum wasn't removed to stop the fun, banter and nonsense that marked Lane's World, just to remove the vehicle for the bulk of Lane's diatribe.

Maybe M4RT, whoever he/she/it was/is needs to make a comeback just to stir folks up again

Hope this helps.

[Andy]

And for the record, Lane has not been banned. He's maybe thrown his toys out of his pram just a little, but definitely not banned. He's still welcome to post providing it stays away from NATC-bashing - which I don't think he's capable of doing TBH.

[ringo]

Craig,

I just had knee surgery so I wouldn't have been able to ride therefore as much as I would've like to come out and visit with you, I just couldn't justify spending the extra 50 cents for fuel it would've cost me.

[jaylael]

"He's maybe thrown his toys out of his pram just a little,"

What a hilarious mental image! Reminds me of those ridiculous "Ernest goes to____" movies where he was shown as a baby, only with Lane's face on. Now that's funny!

[mich lin]

Hey, what's this, no lanes world? KINDA TYPICAL of the behind the scenes politics that have held this great sport back!

Sorry everyone, I've been working and was unable to respond to any direct questions. I'm thinking of expanding my business and I'm off working on the details. Plus I DIDN'T EVEN REALIZE THAT I WAS ON TRIAL here.

To accuse me of being out of bounds toward the NATC or Dr Wagner is a typical knee jerk hyper-sensitive over reaction we often see here! They "the NATC" should be proud of the decisions and direction they have taken the sport, not hyper sensitive or uneasy about their leadership. In my opinion, Only someone who feels that they have made a HUGE mistake should be so sensitive about their leadership or business model.

Believe me, I hold no hard feelings or disrespect for either the NATC or Wiltz. Quite the opposite is true. I respect the fact that THEY run the sport and took it the way they did. Hey think about it, they are the ones who did the work, made the business model they now use and they should be confident and proud of it. Not embarassed UNLESS THEY FEEL THEY HAVE MADE A MISTAKE!

In fact I'm a little amazed that somebody would go to all the effort of censoring Lane's World, which has simply been an honest dialog. Rather than these people censoring it, why didn't they join in. It's almost like they have something to hide! What is it? That the NATC or those around them are so sensitive about?

Could it be the fact that they didn't want anymore professional riders or BIG factories like Honda in their series anymore? so what! What they told me they wanted was a series that was sportsmen friendly and that's exactly what they created. They should be proud of that success, not sensitive about it or try to hide it.

Sure there have been certain factors that their leadership brought into play with their current business model. One being, the US Team is pushed around badly at the TDN, when at one time team USA could have domintated that event. So what? That was by their design, they should again be proud of that and look at the up side.

Their goals of that business model was an excellent sportsmen national format at the US National series. Everyone really enjoys what they have created, I'm sure they have to be proud of that? Of course as an organization, the NATC adopted a NO GROWTH policy for our sport here in the USA. So What!

That was their choice and the chosen business model by the NATC! Of course it has had an effect on the worldwide growth of the sport and the numbers of bikes built and sold worldwide. Growth or No Growth is always a HOT topic in any community or sport worldwide. Each has it's advantages and disadvantages, the NATC should be commended, in life you need to lead, follow or get out of the way. They decided a NO GROWTH policy was what they wanted, they need to be proud of that position in my opinion.

Perhpas it was my views and commets of why trials is not a good sport for a young American athletes to choose today that raised their eyebrows and had me censored? But Hey, face facts and be honest!

My overall opinion was only made stronger by the removal of Lane's World. I find who ever was working behind the scenes to remove Lane's World to be heavy handed and part of the forces that are holding this greeat sport back. For any real success for a young American trials athlete today, our sport must be able to pay them back for all the hard work they put into their training, time, effort and money put into trials.

By comparison, a youngster working just as hard at gymnastics, football, baseball, tennis, golf or a host of other great sports, will find much more of a pay-off for their efforts. Including a free college education and perhaps a multi- million dollar career to reward them for their hard work. Be honest, if a young athlete cannot expect some pay-back why bother with a sport that has NO FUTURE payoff.

Now if the NATC is only interested in promoting is a fun sportsmen championship, with no pay-off to young athletes, more power to them!

All I'm asking is that they are honest and up front with the Young American riders. Let the younger generation go play basketball or run track to help pay for their education. Then after they have a degree and a career, they can come and ride the NATC sportsmen series with their dads. Simply, the chance of turning pro or getting a free education through trials is very slim. You have a much better chance with another sport.

To accuse me of NATC or Wiltz Wagner bashing is simply putting words in my mouth! That has never been my intention. I've simply pointed out that they are turning away cash customers and by design doing their best to keep US riding levels low. Simply because they want a sportsmen friendly US championship, that they and their friends can ride and have fun at.

They should not feel ashamed or mad of that fact but proud! They are simply on the NO Growth side of the equation. While others have always been Pro growth for this wonderful sport. Personally, I'd rather see people on trials bikes in a riding area than a bunch of guys tearing it up on MX machines. Others however simply want trials a secret, which is OK, that's their opinion.

Also remember this simple fact. That IF trials did become popular in the USA, that it might put a lot of the mom and pop shops and importers OUT OF BUSINESS in the USA. For instance HRC/ Honda just might start importing their bikes through their US Honda dealer networks. Putting the under the radar importers out of business which they now enjoy.

This is just one example why some might be NO GROWTH for US trials! Which is understandable! There is a thousand other arguments and reasons out there why some are NO GROWTH but with each argument or reason, there is the opposite side of the coin.

Now if this dosn't get me banned nothing will!

[steve fracy]

Lane, in fact your were never banned or sensored. You did however point a personal attack on the NATC and Wiltz and accussed them of something, perhaps someone more savvy than me can use that quote thingy now. Andy as the owner and moderator will not tolerate personal attacks on this site. he did ask for a response to the accusations from you, which you did not answer yet. Whoever complained about you, must have felt pretty strong about it. From an outsider looking in, I think that you could put this to bed once and for all if Andy asked you some point blank questions, and you answered them clearly and consisely without going on a rant because we already know how you feel about things. You have some good points, but unless you are willing to put the effort into your beliefs, it makes them sorta hollow compared to the effort by the NATC and it's members. I guess that in itself is what makes people mad to begin with. You have the experience and the knowhow to make some headway, If you don't have the time because of your business, fair enough, but you should lay off those who are trying even though you don't agree with the philosophy.

Have a nice day!

STeve

[alan bechard]

What Steve said...

[ringo]

Hey, what's this, no lanes world? KINDA TYPICAL of the behind the scenes politics that have held this great sport back!

I tend to agree that typical rantings from a guy like the beave would hold ANY sport back.

Sorry everyone, I've been working and was unable to respond to any direct questions. I'm thinking of expanding my business and I'm off working on the details. Plus I DIDN'T EVEN REALIZE THAT I WAS ON TRIAL here.

Imagine that, BIG coincidence that the beave [who was constantly on this site multiple times a day] just happened to get so much work that he wasn't able to go on his computer, check his email, or take a quick glance at TC. Yep, I believe that one [see my avatar]

To accuse me of being out of bounds toward the NATC or Dr Wagner is a typical knee jerk hyper-sensitive over reaction we often see here!

Yeah, just like when I kicked a guy in the head sparring and my instructor said..."You kicked him in the head"

Pretty much a typical reaction.

They "the NATC" should be proud of the decisions and direction they have taken the sport, not hyper sensitive or uneasy about their leadership. In my opinion, Only someone who feels that they have made a HUGE mistake should be so sensitive about their leadership or business model.

Who said the NATC isn't proud of what they do? No one. Other people are upset with the beave's attacks.

Believe me, I hold no hard feelings or disrespect for either the NATC or Wiltz. Quite the opposite is true. I respect the fact that THEY run the sport and took it the way they did.

The NATC does not run the sport! The clubs who put on the events from club level to the World Rounds run the sport.

Hey think about it, they are the ones who did the work, made the business model they now use and they should be confident and proud of it. Not embarassed UNLESS THEY FEEL THEY HAVE MADE A MISTAKE!

In fact I'm a little amazed that somebody would go to all the effort of censoring Lane's World, which has simply been an honest dialog. Rather than these people censoring it, why didn't they join in.

They did, infact they asked multiple times over a lengthy period of time for your response to those accusations and we all know that you saw them and chose to hide out for a while to wait until things quieted down. True to form, you came back with this incredibly lame rant which is your typical backpeddeling crap after you've been called on your sh*t.

It's almost like they have something to hide! What is it? That the NATC or those around them are so sensitive about?

YOUR THE ONLY ONE WHO'S BEEN HIDING...er I mean working!

Could it be the fact that they didn't want anymore professional riders or BIG factories like Honda in their series anymore? so what! What they told me they wanted was a series that was sportsmen friendly and that's exactly what they created. They should be proud of that success, not sensitive about it or try to hide it.

Could it be that one of your stunts went wrong and you now ride a little yellow bus to work?

Sure there have been certain factors that their leadership brought into play with their current business model. One being, the US Team is pushed around badly at the TDN, when at one time team USA could have domintated that event. So what? That was by their design, they should again be proud of that and look at the up side.

Dude! I wish I could smoke some of what you're smoking [i don't smoke that funky stuff].

[see below]

Their goals of that business model was an excellent sportsmen national format at the US National series.

This is Lane Leavitts opinion and simply that, only an opinion.

Everyone really enjoys what they have created, I'm sure they have to be proud of that? Of course as an organization, the NATC adopted a NO GROWTH policy for our sport here in the USA. So What!

This is a clear misrepresentation of the NATC's policy. The policy that they have is to set a national schedule. They state that they are not joined to attempt to grow the sport. Understand this policy is only stating that they have not set aside time to promote the sport of trials. Understand that this VOLUNTEER ORGINIZATION has taken time away from their busy schedules to set up a National series. THEY DO NOT STATE THAT THEY ARE AGAINST GROWTH, they simply don't have time to do that.

I'm going to say that again so that everyone is clear. The NATC has not said that they are against growth, infact they are more than happy when someone STEPS UP AND DOES SOMETHING to promote the sport.

That was their choice and the chosen business model by the NATC! Of course it has had an effect on the worldwide growth of the sport and the numbers of bikes built and sold worldwide. Growth or No Growth is always a HOT topic in any community or sport worldwide. Each has it's advantages and disadvantages, the NATC should be commended, in life you need to lead, follow or get out of the way. They decided a NO GROWTH policy was what they wanted, they need to be proud of that position in my opinion.

Perhpas it was my views and commets of why trials is not a good sport for a young American athletes to choose today that raised their eyebrows and had me censored? But Hey, face facts and be honest!

The beave does make it clear that it is HIS OPINION that trials is not a good sport for a young American. Hey Lane what sport is your young son into?

My overall opinion was only made stronger by the removal of Lane's World. I find who ever was working behind the scenes to remove Lane's World to be heavy handed and part of the forces that are holding this greeat sport back. For any real success for a young American trials athlete today, our sport must be able to pay them back for all the hard work they put into their training, time, effort and money put into trials.

I'll be suer to let the national association for badmittin players how you feel.

By comparison, a youngster working just as hard at gymnastics, football, baseball, tennis, golf or a host of other great sports, will find much more of a pay-off for their efforts. Including a free college education and perhaps a multi- million dollar career to reward them for their hard work. Be honest, if a young athlete cannot expect some pay-back why bother with a sport that has NO FUTURE payoff.

So why is Daniel bothering with trials????

Now if the NATC is only interested in promoting is a fun sportsmen championship, with no pay-off to young athletes, more power to them!

All I'm asking is that they are honest and up front with the Young American riders. Let the younger generation go play basketball or run track to help pay for their education. Then after they have a degree and a career, they can come and ride the NATC sportsmen series with their dads. Simply, the chance of turning pro or getting a free education through trials is very slim. You have a much better chance with another sport.

To accuse me of NATC or Wiltz Wagner bashing is simply putting words in my mouth!

OK Lane, give us a better term for bashing.

That has never been my intention. I've simply pointed out that they are turning away cash customers and by design doing their best to keep US riding levels low. Simply because they want a sportsmen friendly US championship, that they and their friends can ride and have fun at.

They should not feel ashamed or mad of that fact but proud! They are simply on the NO Growth side of the equation. While others have always been Pro growth for this wonderful sport. Personally, I'd rather see people on trials bikes in a riding area than a bunch of guys tearing it up on MX machines. Others however simply want trials a secret, which is OK, that's their opinion.

Also remember this simple fact. That IF trials did become popular in the USA, that it might put a lot of the mom and pop shops and importers OUT OF BUSINESS in the USA. For instance HRC/ Honda just might start importing their bikes through their US Honda dealer networks. Putting the under the radar importers out of business which they now enjoy.

This is just one example why some might be NO GROWTH for US trials! Which is understandable! There is a thousand other arguments and reasons out there why some are NO GROWTH but with each argument or reason, there is the opposite side of the coin.

Now if this dosn't get me banned nothing will!

At one point a few years back I had a similar issue wherein I wanted to know exactly what the NATC did and what they stood for. I researched it and found out this FACT.

THE NATC WAS FORMED FOR THE SOLE PURPOSE OF CREATING A NATIONAL SCHEDULE THAT CONSISTS OF 10 ROUNDS OF COMPETITION FOR AMERICA'S TRIALS RIDERS TO RIDE.

Their mission statement clearly states that they are not attempting to do anything but that.

They have done exactly what they were formed to do and they do that very well every year.

For someone to say that this has anything to do with how the USA TDN team fairs overseas is ludicrous. Every rider in the USA has the opportunity to compete [even dumbasses who are stupid enough to think they will get championship points for simply signing up] and the best riders [who are available] the USA has to offer get to go and compete. It's their own individual talent that determines how they will fair. If anything the NATC should be praised for putting together a series that allows the field to compete and compare the talent to be chosen to represent the USA.

Anyone who decided to bash the NATC or whatever you want to call it is exactly like the guy who yells at the baseball coach for coaching a certain way when that person does not offer to coach or even be an assistant coach.

Lane is trials 'monday morning quarterback'

[paulthistle]

But a monday morning quarterback that played in the arena football series.

Was Bernie in the NFL?

Anybody can ask an organization to change direction. New York for example said people are to stupid to make healthy choices and required resturants to do an oil change. For the better.

Maybe Lane was waiting to see if the NATC would in fact change the mission of their organization.

Going back and reading old posts, it seems nothing has changed. Or has it? I believe there is a 125 class now. That should at least be interesting! And we will see if that bumps our riders up any. Of course, how could you prove that?

I think a poll every now and then would be good. Like maybe what is the single dumbest rule, let everybody suggest some, then have a poll. Obviously "The Man" is watching, maybe it would keep everyone thinking.

I like the thread that required you to post a suggestion for fixing anything you were complaining about.

It appears Lane wasn't banned, but if you remove the posts from view....that is censorship.

Lane you were posting on threads well after Andy decree'd a trial. Maybe you need stronger bifocals or maybe read before pasteing the same post. Or stop posting after a six pack. Everybody has a limit.

[Andy]

Oh Lane, you really are losing the plot...