old trials fanatic Posted February 13, 2007 Report Share Posted February 13, 2007 I have waited a bit to post this and thought long and hard about how to word it so that it doesnt seem sour grapes. Well been unsucessful so if it appears so perhaps it is a bit but i am generally interested as one of the clubs i ride at, which will remain nameless, apply tie breaks in what i feel is a strange way. Let me explain. I am not that good a rider but enjoy my rides. Sort of a midfield dabber and wobbler on the Clubman route. Now the other weekend i had a particularly good ride and all yes all the guys who always beat me had a bad day or suffered mechanical trouble. This resulted in this dozy old fart actually finishing on 1 mark lost unfortunately this was the same 1 mark as A.N.Other rider who happened to be a guest and not a member of the club. We both had 1 mark on section 1 on the first lap. No issue with that we both rode well on the day but i will probably never ever have the chance to win my class again. Not the end of the world but the way the club decides a tie break sort of bugs me. Firstly furthest clean. OK as per normal. Then furthest with least loss of marks. Also OK as per normal. Then oldest bike????? Err what? How the heck do you classify the age of a "modern" Pre65 bike? and why should you? I think my bike has just got older Think i must have been mistaken as to it's age. In fact after asking the Club Secretary he didnt know but thought that the first criteria in a tie break should be the age of the bike not furthest clean So out of interest how does your club settle tie breaks Not really sour grapes honest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdc Posted February 13, 2007 Report Share Posted February 13, 2007 It's not a matter of how your club decides ties, it's quite clear - TSR25. (If your club is an ACU club) a, Most cleans d, Most ones c, Most twos d, Most threes e Furthest cleanest If there is another way it must be included in the Supplementary Regulations, if it wasn't then the result is a tie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old trials fanatic Posted February 13, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2007 OOOPS should have said the club in question is BMCA dont know what their ruling is as a governing body? do know they apply a slightly different interpretation of whats "in" a section and when you are "out". They rule the front wheel as entering a section as "in" but the rear whell must pass the ends cards to be "out". Even so working on TSR25 if it had been an ACU club then yes it would still have been a tie. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
totalshell Posted February 13, 2007 Report Share Posted February 13, 2007 As an old bike rider I know you'll appreciate how we do it at Yorkshire Classic http://hometown.aol.co.uk/totalshell/myhom...newsletter.html (paragraph 8) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the addict Posted February 13, 2007 Report Share Posted February 13, 2007 a, Most cleans d, Most ones c, Most twos d, Most threes e Furthest cleanest f Bollock kicking contest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorpa3 Posted February 14, 2007 Report Share Posted February 14, 2007 If this happened in one of our trials it would be simple. Two 1st places, two equal awards, no second place the next rider is third. Unless stated in suplementary regulations, this is the only possible outcome, which is the very reason why we run a timed special test in our LDT and Classic trials. A timed section will (almost) guarantee an out right win without the need to make the sections any harder. But this is stated in the regs, so it is acceptable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmyl Posted February 14, 2007 Report Share Posted February 14, 2007 Think you have been hard done by mate. Anyway as a guest rider who is not a member of the club should he be entitled to an award in the first place. Was it a closed to club trial? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idmcc_sec Posted February 14, 2007 Report Share Posted February 14, 2007 Up here in the Heilans it would be a tie. Both riders would get an award, two class winners, two equal awards, no second place the next rider is third. Seems pretty tight fisted, where you both can't get something. Cost to the club - next to nothing. Riders cred - priceless! D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02-apr Posted February 14, 2007 Report Share Posted February 14, 2007 I dont recall a special test in a "modern" trial in Scotland for decades but it is a good idea as it at least reflects some sort of riding ability. Going back not quite so far, the Hawick and Border club came from the other direction to most by awarding ties in favour of the rider with fewest fives - makes sense to me and I think it was well enough accepted by riders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old trials fanatic Posted February 14, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2007 (edited) Thanks guys some good ideas there. Personally i dont like any age element coming into it. Almost impossible to date a current "Classic" bike. Mine will now be a 60 not a 64 so thats a lesson learnt. Do like the idea of a special test as it at least has an element of skill to it. Perhaps there is some element to the age thing re the rider. generally speaking a fit 20 yr old will probably beat a 60 yr old most times all being equal. Somehow though doesnt feel right age discrimination and all that so i come down on the special test to be used after furthest clean then most 1's etc still doesnt seperate a rider. Back to the Trial. I will still score a win in the club championship points but only get second in the trials results. This is wrong to me and a joint win and two awards with the next rider finishing 3rd to me would have been fairer. Oh well no use crying over spilt milk just have to keep trying and you never know maybe some day everybody else will get punctures and i mught get a win Moral of the story is always read and know the rules of the trial you are entered in. DONT ASSUME. Also make sure you clean the first section on the first lap and the second if you can Edited February 14, 2007 by Old trials fanatic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rabie Posted February 15, 2007 Report Share Posted February 15, 2007 as above - TSR25 ties most of us down. most clubs then give you a tie. for the local big pre65 (the Talmag), our sidecar trial (i was CofC ) and our LDTs have specail tests (IIRC for trials they might have to be something like less than 30 secs or 1 minute so they aren't a speed events). there are pleanty of funky specail tests to try rather than just flat out, like up hill then dead engine down, ride to an exact target time , etc (i did a wrong way grass track on wet grass for the sidecars) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huntmaster Posted February 16, 2007 Report Share Posted February 16, 2007 (edited) Perhaps there is some element to the age thing re the rider. generally speaking a fit 20 yr old will probably beat a 60 yr old most times all being equal.I've been to some vintage events that have done exactly that...particularly when there is in some case a forty year spread between the ages of the riders as well as the bikes!Doug Edited February 16, 2007 by huntmaster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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