British Champ - What Sections Do You Like?

[jimmyl]

Now that rules and format of this year British Champ have been sorted I thought as C of C for one of the rounds this year I would see what sort of sections riders actually like.

At last years event we tried to keep sections flowing and rideable without too much balancing and hopping as we where a little uncertain of how the time issue was going to work. With this experience under our belts we could drift into making the section tighter and a little more extreme. But is this what is wanted ?

I think one of the sectons that was cleaned least last year was a muddy bank that looked more like a clubman route! The 6 foot steps wher cleaned more often especially by the top riders.

From the BC meeting at the ACU harder rounds seemed to be the order of the day with the winner being in the 25 to 30 region.

Having been involved in either riding, observing and now CoC for our round of the British for many years its seems the tricky traditional sections seem to take the 1's and 2's all day. The big stuff is usually cleaned by most apart from the less able who have crashing 5's.

From a spectator point of view we need the spectacular to show off our riders skills but what do the riders like to ride??.

We are fortunate with our venue to have a reasonable mix of all of the above so maybe in answering my own question carry on with a variety of sections and severities.

What do other people feel? What would peole like to see or ride?

[north_yorkshire_lad]

don't take this to hart or seriously , but should we not be testing riders on sections that they don't like or that don't suit them to help them improve .

[old trials fanatic]

Funny that you mention this. I have noticed when observing that some very talented "modern" riders on the latest bikes have struggled on what i would call "traditional" sections. You know slimey climbs no tight turns but the odd slippy rock step as against 6ft wall. Even to the extent that on one section there they were gaily hopping and pogoing half way up the climb and still getting a three when a guy on a 500 Triumph engined Greeves just rode up the section for a clean. "How did he do that". Err he rode it??

Lot of it is down to what you practice and a lot of that nowadays is "How big a sheer rock face can i get up?" or "How long can i pogo".

So in answer to you question, which i think you know the answer to already, a mixture of sections which test ALL the attributes that a TRIALS rider, as against a circus act, should have as second nature.

You are lucky in that you have some of the most varied and best terrain available. USE IT TO THE FULL.

Be interesting to see how the riders who want "harder" Trials put a spin on losing 40 or 50 marks because the sections were too easy

[scorpa3]

Try putting a dead straight muddy slot in and see how many marks that takes.

[jimmyl]

With the British Championship being such a different series of trials it would be interesting to see not only what the riders would like (not that they will get all that they want) but what does the rest of the trials commuity think the British champ should be?

Is it a stepping stone to world rounds,

is it a series on its own?

Is it for the spectators?

Should it suit the 55 riders who enter or should it be only for the best 5 or 6 in each class?

Some discussion would be interesting or are the majority of riders too busy riding their own trials such as the more traditional nationals and Novogar to worry about the British champ?

[slapshot 3]

I suppose it depends how many marks you want to take off the top boys to get a winner, but as a national championship trial it has to be a reasonable test for the top boys as well.

In the Champ class in the last round last year Grimbo lost 31 is that too many or not enough, compare with Mika Vesterinen in last place on 189, too much? not enough rideable stuff for everyone?? I don't know, I agree that the spectacular stuff brings the punters in but as OTF suggests should it all be about the biggest step, and the biggest slab you can get up, getting like the indoor circus stuff.

Again as has been said we have such a variance of terrain in the UK, the British Championship should reflect this as well as prove a test for the big guys in each class.

[nigel dabster]

Mika has dropped down to expert for 07 I believe.

[old trials fanatic]

Should it suit the 55 riders who enter or should it be only for the best 5 or 6 in each class?

Some discussion would be interesting or are the majority of riders too busy riding their own trials such as the more traditional nationals and Novogar to worry about the British champ?

Call me old fashioned, alright i'm old fashioned, but if theres 55 riders entered and 55 riders paid to do so and youve taken their money then shouldnt you in return give those same 55 riders an enjoyable day?

Alternatively why dont you take the money off 55 riders but only let the top 5 ride??? Then the event would pay for itself, ALL the riders who rode would be happy and you would have 45 observers

I'm being ironic

[scorpa3]

Call me old fashioned, alright i'm old fashioned, but if theres 55 riders entered and 55 riders paid to do so and youve taken their money then shouldnt you in return give those same 55 riders an enjoyable day?

Alternatively why dont you take the money off 55 riders but only let the top 5 ride??? Then the event would pay for itself, ALL the riders who rode would be happy and you would have 45 observers

I'm being ironic

Lets get one thing straight before I start; I'm not in a position to make a 'qualified' suggestion, as I am not a rider or organiser. But in my opinion for what it's worth, the British Championship (BTC) should be elitist.

By its very nature, it is for the TOP riders in the country, it needs to be a genuine stepping stone into European and World Championship events.

I think the BTC should be set out to test the best five and if anyone else thinks they can cope with that, then that's their choice. They are fully aware of the severity when they enter.

Remember, there is an Experts championship and also a Clubmans championship for riders of those ability levels. Those riders are already very well catered for.

We shouldn't make the BTC a watered down ride out for anyone who fancies a go. In exactly the same way that we shouldn't make the Clubmans events harder just because a couple of 'top' riders enter.

[old trials fanatic]

Well said Scorpa 3. Totally agree with you. The British Championship rounds should be for the creme de la creme. As the Clubmens Championship should be for the Clubmen NOT the pot hunters.

However. Given the hypothetical situation where everybody knows the severity of the sections etc they can expect. Lets say there are only 5 entries and it's you and your club who is putting the Trial on. Do you?

1. Make a loss but thats ok because we want a British Champion to challenge the best in the world.

2. Subsidise the Trial by chargeing extra at your Club rounds to put the money back in the Club coffers you took out to subsidise the British round?

3. Cancel the event as it doesnt make financial or any other sense to put a Trial on for 5 riders?

The post was "British Champ - What sections do you like? Me flowing ones especially streams with no tight turns that require hopping etc. But i am not riding.

Though we all seem in agreement about the championship being for the elite few a Trial should at least break even financially and it wont do that with 5 entries will it?

Difficult one to get a balance this one.

Edited February 16, 2007 by Old trials fanatic

[scorpa3]

Yes I agree that a trial has to be financialy viable. This is hopefully covered by the majority of the riders entering in the Expert class.

I am the Clerk of the Course for a National Sammy Miller Classic trial and even at this level we still use two routes so as to appeal to a greater number of riders, thus allowing us to more than cover costs.

Often the easy (in the case of BTC, read: Less severe) route is the most popular and thus should reflect the majority of the entry... The paying customer.

However, (and I say again, this is only my view) the BTC Championship should be aimed at the very best, or those wishing to challenge the very best and not the lower ranks.

[rabie]

IMHO as the organiser of MX, Trials and Enduros any event has to break even

now how it does this this is IMHO by 3 key ways

1) the riders pay for it (ie entry fees covers costs) - therefore lots of riders

2) the punters pay for it (ie need big crowd - how do you get a crowd, etc)

3) someone else pays for it (ie sponsors or the government) - IMHO not going to happen in mainland England anytime soon

the British MX championship (my club runs a very successful round of) works on point 2, as i understand the British enduro championship works on point 1 by having a huge clubman entry

from my laid back outsides perspective the British trial championship fails on all 3 ...... call me a crazy, shandy drinking, southern fairy but i wonder how you lot even have a championship ???

[nigel dabster]

Remind me which planet you come from Rabie?

The BTC is sponsered by Appleyards so there is no real problem with entries covering costs.

It is not the experts that are "covering the costs" they are part of the event just as at the colonial last week the clubman were not covering the costs of the inters who were not covering the Experts, its how trials are in 2007.

The expert route is there because there is a need and a level of severity which is not always available elsewhere.

There is a healthy expert entry and waiting list as well and of course 5 youths, have you been to a BTC recently?

Since when has "the government" (our government) ever paid for any motorcycle event?

I think the time may have come for a

[rabie]

what i was getting at it doesn't appear from the outside (don't really get many big trials down south - Thames have a BTC at Hook Woods so if free might be interesting) to be a cash cow for clubs to bank roll their other events, almost the opposite....

re the gov thing, what i was getting at is say in Northern Ireland (WTC), the Isle of Man(TDN), the channel islands (abortive WTC a few years ago), etc there *appears* to be more government help (eg its a tourist income generating machine) to facilitate if not underwrite/sponsor motorcycle sport

knowing in detail the finances behind all the events my club promotes the numbers for our trials against say our British MX championship round (8 to 10,000 punters) then maybe you see my slightly cynical outsiders take on it all

[nigel dabster]

Government you are confusing with the tourist borads or local councils.

All over Europe, take a look at the first 07 WTC, are sponsored in some way by lacal government which they believe will increase tourism or bums on seats/in beds for an event, doesn't ever happen much/ever? in mainland Britain unless I'm mistaken.