James Frame (ma Replica)

[daved444]

You may have seen at the Malvern show a really fantastic Mick Andrews replica James frame on Alan Whitton's stand.

I have been thinking of building a really trick James, possibly inspired by the one in the Classic Dirt Bike mag and thought that this frame would be the right place to start.

Having spoken to Alan it appears that ther are currently only 2 of these in existance at the moment, Mick's own one and the one that Alan is building for himself.

They are made from 17guage T45 and there have been a few mods including slight adjustments for the steering geometry as required my Mick. All in all this has to be one of the best James frames around with superbly finished braising and neat touches all over it - see the drop outs - oh and it interestingly weighs about 5 lbs less than the old James frames that AW used to sell. They will retail at about 1350 quid.

Anyway, I have bitten the bullet and placed my order but unfortunately will only be produced in batches of 3 so if anyone is considering building a James and want the best frame out there can you give Alan a call so he can get 3 orders in and make the next batch so I can start my dream bike.

Incase you havent managed to see one yet, here are a few pictures

[andy m]

When you start the build don't forget to add it to your blog. If its like the Cub and Sprite I am sure you will make a great job of it. Almost a pity to paint a frame that well built. Looks great. Good luck with it.

[totalshell]

I think bo drinker has the right tag line '' Its not the winning its the taking part''

whilst Alans workmanship is to be marvelled at sadly all that bikes like that do is drive joe blogs into the arms of a 3 year old modern bike for the same money as the MAR frame

this weekend at red rose was a good example, the venue is first class and the sections were laid out easy with dual routes, in fact the clubmans /rigid 'easy' route was very kind . and yet about a third of the entry were on twin shocks from early seventies 247 cotas though to tlr's and ty's and they virtually all rode the easier of the two routes leaving the pre65 boys to ride the harder sections,

not one of these 40 odd p65 bikes could boast that they were even close to how it may have been way back when as they have had to develop with the sections to not only remain competative but so that they stand any chance of finishing the trial.

only in the last 6 months have organisers recognised that to keep riders happy they would prefer not to have to be able to count to 100 when totting up thier scores at the end of each day. This has been largely succesful with increased numbers riding at both red rose and yorkshire classic this year, mostly new younger riders as well ( including dave on his cub) Some clubs seem not to recognise this though and Old farts like OTF put thier bikes up for sale with no intention of returning and still last weekend at the first ACU classic round we see heroes like Gaunt jnr dropping 77 i'm told how hard was that trial!!

[woody]

the first ACU classic round we see heroes like Gaunt jnr dropping 77 i'm told how hard was that trial!!

The trial wasn't intended to be as hard as it turned out, the appalling weather did it's worst. Rain began at about 7am and continued, very heavily, throughout the trial. Nothing the organisers could do really as it is virtually impossible to get around 40 sections of a road trial and change them. Had it not rained it would have been won on a single figure score. As it happens, almost every section remained rideable (eg, I don't think Nic Draper incurred a single 5) and it was possible to ride some of the worst sections for a 1 or a 2. Very few were 3 or 5 only types. Maybe I'm warped, but I really enjoyed it, just like a good old fashioned National or centre championship trial from late 70s, soaked to the skin, roadwork, single lap and plenty to have a go at.

Back to the James, is there really a problem with bikes of this nature or are we just creating one. As has been said before, the people who are going to win, will win, whether they are on a standard bike or not. The riders that win are also more competitive by nature and will look to improve their bikes and gain an advantage over each other, it's how it's always been - compare GOV 132 to a standard HT5... Full of parts not available to Joe Bloggs at the time. So if those riders are on trick bikes, they are still only competing against each other. Joe Bloggs is not going to beat them, even if he is riding a modern bike. So is there really a problem?

Possibly, and as I see it, it is this. The riders on the 'specials' or 'trick bikes' are not competing in a specials class. They are still entering in the 'ordinary' pre65 classes (as in the Miller rounds for example) Therefore, average riders on machines which are closer to original spec than the 'specials' are never going to win their class as they are competing against better riders on better bikes. The Miller series was intended initially for riders on standard(ish) bikes and the old rigids etc with sections to suit. I'm pretty sure this is one of the reasons for the drop off in pre65 bikes in the Miller series. They think I've no chance of doing any good against these blokes so bugger it, I'm not bothering anymore. If the specials were moved into the specials class by the organisers (if the riders don't enter it voluntarily) then this would leave the ordinary classes populated by the Joe Bloggses on their more standard machines to fight for class wins and the championship overall. The better riders on their specials then fight for the win in the specials class. I don

[paioli]

have to agree with woody , the acu classic series is aimed at good riders on well developed pre75 and twinshocks if gaunty or thorpy were

riding standard un modified bikes there scores would have been over the hundred mark, the orginisers did a great job running a good trial

in such atrocious weather though if it had stayed dry that week most of the championship runners would have been in single figers.

as for the sammy rounds i am sure that if someone turned up unexpectedly with a set of bike scales a tape mesure and a set of old factory

weights and mesurements,the special class entry would double or even triple don't get me wrong these replica's and specials are great

looking bikes and the time and money riders put into them can't be faulted,but they need to be ridden in the right class.

ps woody have you told your mates about bootle yet ! warped does come to mind

[daved444]

When you start the build don't forget to add it to your blog. If its like the Cub and Sprite I am sure you will make a great job of it. Almost a pity to paint a frame that well built. Looks great. Good luck with it.

Bo - I agree - I have actually been considering having it clear laquered rather than painting it - dont much care for the James red colour any way!!

[daved444]

I think bo drinker has the right tag line '' Its not the winning its the taking part''

whilst Alans workmanship is to be marvelled at sadly all that bikes like that do is drive joe blogs into the arms of a 3 year old modern bike for the same money as the MAR frame

this weekend at red rose was a good example, the venue is first class and the sections were laid out easy with dual routes, in fact the clubmans /rigid 'easy' route was very kind . and yet about a third of the entry were on twin shocks from early seventies 247 cotas though to tlr's and ty's and they virtually all rode the easier of the two routes leaving the pre65 boys to ride the harder sections,

not one of these 40 odd p65 bikes could boast that they were even close to how it may have been way back when as they have had to develop with the sections to not only remain competative but so that they stand any chance of finishing the trial.

only in the last 6 months have organisers recognised that to keep riders happy they would prefer not to have to be able to count to 100 when totting up thier scores at the end of each day. This has been largely succesful with increased numbers riding at both red rose and yorkshire classic this year, mostly new younger riders as well ( including dave on his cub) Some clubs seem not to recognise this though and Old farts like OTF put thier bikes up for sale with no intention of returning and still last weekend at the first ACU classic round we see heroes like Gaunt jnr dropping 77 i'm told how hard was that trial!!

I have to agree with you Totalshell, the Red Rose, Yorks and BMCA trials have got it just about right - the trials take under 10 marks from the good riders at the top of the list and dont provide a challenge that will put off the guys at the other end. I dont see these trials having diminishing entries, quite the contrary they attract riders like myself at 40 with dodgy knees that cant afford to get injured on sundays riding more difficult modern trials trying to keep up with the young riders. (Thanks for the 'new younger rider compliment though!!).

In respect of Woody's comment, there are very few bikes out there that are unmodified to some degree with parts that were not available in the period. Some meet the rules and others should be ridden in the Specials class accordingly - the thing is that the rules fail to be consistent and a bike that meets the regs at one trial is not allowed at another - this is where the problem lies for me, especially on the Cub. This is why the Sprite was built to ride with limited mods in any trials and also the idea to build a really trick James to actually use in twinshock events and the odd clubmans class in modern trials.

I see that the rules for the ACU sanctioned Miller championship are not even the same as for the ACU classic championship (non british carbs being allowed due to the severity of the sections in the ACU???) Surely the right thing to do is make the sections meet the capability of the bikes within the rules, not the opposite.

At the end of the day I think we all want to have and ride the best bike available to us, for some this is one upmanship, others it means engineering excellence, others it means getting away with as much as you can and others to maximise their capability as a rider - whatever the reason you still have to ride the sections and keep your feet up and as I have said before, the bike wouldn't massively change the final result at most club events if everyone switched bikes as it still needs riding and there is no real substitute for the class of the best riders