Honda Twinshock Retro Kit

[ask greeves]

I am seriously contemplating purchasing a frame kit to convert my old and worn out rtl mono into a twinshock. I was wondering whether anybody has a completed bike that I could maybe try, or at least recommend a venue where I could watch one being ridden in a competitive trial. As these kits are quite expensive and I wouldn't like to commit without seeing and trying a finished article and also what problems they encountered during the build. Any help or ideas would be appreciated.

[woody]

Not sure you will find anyone with one of these kits in the UK (assuming you mean the kits made out in France called the kit-pro)

As an alternative, the RTL, TLR RS200 motors all share the same basic centre crankcases, so the mounting lugs are all in the same place, so the RTL engine will drop straight into a TLR 200 or 250 frame but on the 200 (not sure about the 250) there is a slight clearance problem with the kickstart fouling the frame at the swingarm pivot, due to the RTL having a different length kickstart shaft than the 200 - may well apply to the 250 too, don't know. There are often TLR200 frames on ebay or available from breakers, so that's an alternative.

Question is why do you want to do it. Although I'm not a fan of the RTL, I find them horrible to ride, high footrests and too much trail on the steering, it seems a shame to break a complete bike, unless it is really beyond saving. The engine is barely any different from the TLR250, different cam, electrics maybe, gear ratios maybe and visually the side casings obviously, but in terms of performance there's little if any difference. For the money it could cost to build the retro kit, which will also need an airbox and exhaust purpose built, it may not cost much more to buy a sorted TLR250 and keep the RTL too

PS - You've put this in the Pre65 forum

[andy m]

There was a frame kit on display at Malvern show, RS200 replica I think. Looked like a nice job, no idea of the price or if a RTL is the donor. The same frame appeared late last year on ebay, they also do an alloy swingarm. It is being sold by someone down south Hants or there abouts. Perhaps someone on here knows a contact number. There are a couple of Seeleys about with shot motors, maybe another option?

[woody]

There are a couple of Seeleys about with shot motors, maybe another option?

Any idea where and if they are for sale as I know someone who may be interested in a Seeley less its engine

Back to the frame kits, I was thinking of the Honda-Kit frames made by BPS Engineering in France due to the mention of kit in the topic title, I'd overlooked the RS200/250 replica frames that are available from (I think) Track and Trial along with the alloy swingarm. They have a website but the frames aren't advertised on it. One thing to consider with the RS replica frame is that the carb is mounted outside of the frame tubes on the right hand side of the engine on a Honda RS, not through the middle and under the seat like a TLR. This will affect the choice of tank/seat unit fitted to the bike as it will need to give clearance to the carb and carb - airbox hose and could rule out the one-piece tank seat units. See their website for pictures of RS200 bikes and for RS type carb mounting under sold items.

Track and Trial

Edited March 16, 2007 by Woody

[g4321]

Why convert an RTL to twinshock? The RTL was the top bike of its day - you will enjoy a trial just as much on an RTL as you would the latest bit of kit - lets face it do you really need the latest bike to ride a trial.

Some of the twinshock pundits would have you hung drawn and quartered for even contemplating such a conversion - be it an exotic RTL or common or garden TY yam.

If you do decide to through out your RTL rolling chassis etc throw it my way, I would quite happily build a semi RTL to use either borrowing a TLR250 engine from one of my bikes or building up an engine from a XL125/185 starting point - I could dream I then owned an RTL!.

[woody]

Now this is where things get mis-construed. Converting an RTL to twinshock would be to attach twinshocks to the RTL and lose the monoshock. No point whatsoever in my opinion and could never be considered a twinshock bike.

He's not proposing that, just to use the RTL engine in a twinshock frame, and probably forks/wheels too, assuming the latter aren't rotted through. I'm assuming, from his post, this is because the RTL is knackered and beyond repair or needs unobtainable parts or whatever. This is a different thing altogether from converting an RTL to twinshock and I can't see anything wrong with it as an RTL engine is about 95% TLR250 - which is why I proposed that buying a sorted TLR250 which would be just as good and wouldn't cost that much more than building the new bike - and he still has the RTL.

RTL - best bike of its time...?? Not a chance, Yam mono was much better

Edited March 17, 2007 by Woody