Twinshock Trials / Disc Brakes And Other Mods

[scrumpyjack]

Hi all,, I want to clear something up about twinshock trials bikes,,,

I ride several different twinshocks, But the one i use in modern trials took me months to build

and yes it has disc brakes, hydraulic clutch and a tubeless rear wheel, but at the end of the day is

a twinshock.. and is a lot heavier than a modern bike, My point is when motorbikes were first used

in trials they were just modded road bikes that people were trying to make as competetive as possible,

So a lot of people get a lot of enjoyment from taking an old bike to the next level, and pushing the

boundries of their bikes, But those of you who ride standard machines are constantly up in arms against

these people... and even not letting them enter their modded bikes in twinshock trials in the first place..!!

This is very wrong and a terrible shame that these people have such closed minds,, A much nicer, simpler

solution would be to include a "modified" class for such bikes.. and for once enjoy the engineering skills and

time it might have taken to build.

I believe the "Eboracum" club of york will be having a "modified" class in their twinshock + pre 65 2 day trial

at the end of next month... and i can only say one thing: WELL DONE LADS, lets hope the rest of the country

follows suit and ends this silly witch hunt... at the end of the day we all just love riding our bikes.

top Fantic builder: ScrumpyJack

[jumbostu]

Cant say fairer than that mate . . .

Scrumpy for Prime Minister !!!!!! lol

jumbostu

ps - is my works jumbo an unfair advantage?!?!??!

- not at my level ! ! ! r.o.f.l - (had to say that before someone else did).

[old trials fanatic]

Seen your Fantic on e bay and you have made a real nice job of it.

Problem as i see it is what is "modified"?

What we need and this is getting more and more necessary by the week is a set of regs that apply to all "twinshock" classes across all clubs. Same with pre65 but i think they have gone past the point of no return now.

Dont want to go over old ground again as the arguement has been worn thin but surely it would be better that there were an agreed set of rules for twinshock as to what is and what is not "allowed" ?

Almost every bike in use today is "modified" to some extent so where do you draw the line ?

All this is however irrelevant if nobody is going to police the elegibility of the machines.

Strangely this seems to be more of a British phenomenon as i have noticed that the twinshocks competing in a lot of Trials in Spain etc are remarkebly standard at least in appearence. They seem to enjoy themselves.

I enjoy the engineering part as much as the next bloke and would hate to stifle that part of Trials but i just wonder when a bike is classed as being "modified" and when it is not.

Just my two pennorth.

[bikespace]

I fancy buying a Fantic 240, it was my favourite bike ever, and I do remember how bad the front brakes were, but..... I'd have to see how things went to decide if I upgraded the brakes.

If I was planning riding it in classic trials and twinshock classes then I would have to leave it bog standard. I don't see the point of doing all the mods that weren't around in the day if you're going to ride in a twinshock class.

There IS a class for heavily modified twinshocks - it's the either the inter or novice route depending on what you fancy. If I upgraded the bike then I fancied having a go at the Inter route.

The only advantage to getting your own class is that you're eligible for an award, and I really don't think the award matters that much at all. I think it just dilutes everything. All of a sudden you're not the best rider on a standard twinshock, you're the best rider on a twinshock with disc brakes, then best....on a bike with disc brakes and hydraulic clutch and tubeless X11, then best.....on a bike with disc brakes, tubeless tyres, hydraulic clutch, titanium frame, Fantic engine with Scorpa internals, Sherco forks, Renthal fat bars etc etc.

The last bike there might be an amazing engineering feat and would look great competing on the Inter route with modern machines.

I doubt that many organisers would complain if you wanted to ride for no award, just there for the entertainment not the award.

Thats my feelings, it's a point of view, what do you reckon?

Gaz

Edited March 16, 2007 by bikespace

[scrumpyjack]

I think "modded" rules are simple, disc brake is modded a converted mono to twinshock is modded,

hydraulic clutch is modded... they are the basic mods on 99% of altered bikes.

And the best thing for your fantic 240 is to have a spare fantic 301 front end to slip straight in, pm me

and i can sort one out for you.

Scrumpy

[scrumpyjack]

And yes JumboStu your works Bernie jumbo is nothing short of cheating..!! that thing rides better than

a lot of modern bikes...lol

Scrumpy

[bikespace]

I would imagine very few people would complain about works mods of the right era for your bike.

I don't think that's a great argument to allow a GasGas Pro with a couple of shockers welded on

[scrumpyjack]

I think that is a very extreme argument,, and not very realistic..!

but ok we will add a no liquid cooled bikes.. Happy??

Here in the north east we allow air cooled mono's to enter some of our twinshock

trials "to keep the numbers up mainly" and even riding these new machines the

riders never come close to dropping as little as the good riders on old machines (all riding the same course)

My point is its mainly down to the rider not the machine... so it wouldnt bother me if someone

went to the trouble of graphting some twinshocks on a gasgas... i certainly wouldnt be threatened

by it.

Scrumpy

[bikespace]

It might sound extreme (but it was actually referring to your post where you mentioned mono's converted in to twinshocks), but look at some of the Pre-65 bikes out there. Some of them have very little of the original bike left, and just look at some of the arguments and complaints it's caused just on TC.

That was my argument, that if you dilute things you have to regulate things down to the last nut and bolt, otherwise, one step at a time everything gets out of hand.

It's starting to sound like I'm taking things too seriously, but that's the opposite of my argument - which is keeping within the spirit of things - If it's not standard then what's the problem with riding the same event, same sections, same enjoyment for no award?

I'm not pig headed, so you might be able to convince me, but the pre-65 palava means I may take some convincing

[scrumpyjack]

I am all for riders who are out of class, or bikes that have no class riding on a non award basis,

But i can see the need for strict rules on the pre 65 bike trials,, but as you know what is cleverly

hidden beneath standard trim is often very "trick"... but we are moving away from the point,

you say ride on a no award basis, i say have a modified class, either way it puts an end to

the bickering and back stabbing that goes on far to much,, Personally i get great pleasure

from riding against modern bikes on my heavily tricked up fantic...the look on their faces as

i beat them is priceless.

this is a long night shift: Scrumpy

Edited March 17, 2007 by ScrumpyJack

[scrumpyjack]

"Entry forms now available: Highland Pre-65 & Twinshock Trial 16/17 June 2007, Alvie Estate, Aviemore, Scotland...be there!"

Does this mean i can ride my Modded Fantic in your trial John?? (it is 100% fantic) or would it have to be my Greeves Scottish...but it has a C15 engine :-(

Scrumpy

Edited March 17, 2007 by ScrumpyJack

[woody]

I just don't get this convert a mono to twinshock and calling it a twinshock thing at all. People ride twinshocks, generally, because they are the bikes they enjoyed riding when they were younger and they enjoy the no-stop traditional type of sections which don't call for trick riding and don't require the finite braking performance needed to stop and ride back up the tyre tracks you have left on the way down. A converted mono will never be a twinshock - no argument whatsoever. If people want to convert monos to twinshocks, add discs and ride them in modern trials against modern bikes that's fine, there's nothing wrong with that but a twinshock it will never be.

Why the need for a 'specials' twinshock class. It's creating a class for a type of bike that never existed. If people are riding monos with twinshocks added, why not just enjoy riding the bike you have created as a Novice, Inter or Expert, whichever is applicable. About 10 - 12 years ago, inbetween the Sebac rounds, I used to ride my Ossa regularly in modern events which had no twinshock class back then, sometimes on the hard route with the aim of doing the best I could, or, if that was too hard, the next route down. I never requested or wanted a twinshock class, I just entered as expert or inter and enjoyed my day out.

The ACU Classic series is specific in that twinshocks must be twinshock as at original manufacture and no discs. So far it is working ok and most agree there is no need for discs, neither do they want them. If you want a good days sport on a twinshock why not get a standard 240 or 300 Fantic and see if you can beat Mr Wiffen on his unmodified 300 before he romps away with the twinshock class again this year.

[bikespace]

It's a tough one. I agree with Woody and Big John as you've probably guessed. I can see the other side of the coin and if everyone rides in the same well meant spirit it could probably work, but people don't and I think it opens up a door to ruin things for everyone.

I'll try to give an example because i don't want to be just bloody minded. Your trial at the moment where the modified bikes don't have a class is aimed mainly at the standard bikes. Over the next few years I can see the popularity of twinshock continuing to increase, and more and more riders will be used to their modern brakes/clutch/tyres/lightness so may be inclined to do the mods and step up to the modded class.

Eventually there are an equal amount of bikes on each and the modded class need slightly harder sections because Joe Bloggs is cleaning everything on his 'special'.

Does the real twinshock class become a support class for the harder modded class? I dunno, maybe it won't become a problem. It's the pre-65 scene that gives me cause for concern. It's gone mad.

There are too many variations of modding and too many classes. What are the awards worth anyway when the bike is a mongrel? I reckon demonstrate the true spirit and ride for no award.

I'd probably be more in favour if the class was designated strictly no award - fun class only? Would that suit people?

[scrumpyjack]

Fun class only sounds good to me,,

Hey John, if both my bikes fall into the modified class... isnt that a bit unfair, my greeves is 100% pre 65

or is there a seperate modified class for pre 65 bikes, after all people in the day used to swap alsorts from bike to bike!

the engine has lived in the bike for the last 30 years. I would like to do the scottish on it one day, but would it be allowed??

Scrumpy

[fantic*rob]

I SAY AS LONG AS WE ARE ENJOYING RIDING OUR BIKES ON A SUNDAY WHO CARES .....WETHER ITS A TWINSHOCK ...MODED TWINSHOCK OR A BRAND NEW BIKE AS LONG AS IT MAKES YOU SMILE WHATS THE HARM .