Twinshock Trials / Disc Brakes And Other Mods

[scrumpyjack]

I am very happy that i started this thread,, we have all debated it from most angles......

But the people i would like to hear from are the ones who chose to ride a twinshock on

a weekly basis in modern trials, these people are the true enthusiasts who chose to go

out against the odds, i have done just this for four years..including nationals like the east yorks 2 day,

the cleveland, the colonial, and done well,

Yes every year i built a new Fantic for myselfe and each time pushed the boundries a little further, but

it was as much about reliability as anything, disc brakes require less maintanence than drums,

fantic 240 frames have a tendancy of stretching with to much abuse etc etc

Why should it be "them and us" I say mix it up a little.

And Woody, i think we can all tell that you hate anything that doesnt fall into what you see as

acceptable, and thats ok.

I am now riding a modern bike again... so the Fantic is retired for the time being, i pretty much

have a bike for all occasions so look out for me at any twinshock/pre 65 trials that we have in the north

Blue bar trial / lakes two day / Bill Pyes 3day and the ousburn trial next month... shake my hand or

smack me in the mouth. you decide

Scrumpyjack : a true twinshocker

[old trials fanatic]

I agree with Woody. Any bike has to be rided, let

[scorpa3]

Scorpa 3, my apologies as this event has clashed with your OK Supreme Trail bike event, but it was the only date our event would not clash with a sammy round or ACU Classic round.

No need to appologise for the clash, the OK Supreme is aimed fair and square at Trail and Enduro bikes. We put in a twin shock class and a British bike class purely because there is a large club membership who ride these types of machines and like to do the OK themselves.

Our proper Classic trial is the Sam Cooper Union Jack which is a round of the Sammy Miller championship in May. For the classic trial, this year we will be checking some aspects of machine eligibility in scrutineering. Anyone found breaking the series rules will be moved to the specials class.

We don't want to put anyone off entering but machines which break the rules will simply be classed as specials. No drama.

[bikespace]

I am very happy that i started this thread,, we have all debated it from most angles......

But the people i would like to hear from are the ones who chose to ride a twinshock on

a weekly basis in modern trials, these people are the true enthusiasts who chose to go

out against the odds, i have done just this for four years..including nationals like the east yorks 2 day,

the cleveland, the colonial, and done well,

Y Scrumpyjack : a true twinshocker

Yep - that's what I'd like to do - just trying to justify a second bike (I just can't sell my Sherco - been too good to me) Still undecided on 240 or 300, but the 240 was always my favourite - never had a 300, went straight to 301, but I do want it to be a twin shock.

Well done anyway ScrumpyJack - seems like you've got the spirit that wouldn't need all the bull**** rules - just plain fun.

And yes, decent thread, some good discussion.

[scrumpyjack]

Hey Bikespace,, it sounds like my Fantic is your ideal bike...!!

The first fantic i built up was a 240, but i put a 300 series engine in it,

the 250cc engine never bogs under low speed, and i stuck with that series

of engine ever since.

Remember that buying a well sorted twinshock is not like buying a new modern

bike that depreciates every day... the twinshock will hold its value at worse..

you know you want it

Scrumpy

[woody]

And Woody, i think we can all tell that you hate anything that doesnt fall into what you see as

acceptable, and thats ok.

I wish people would read threads properly before they comment - If you read what I said you'll see I never said that at all. I couldn't give a fig if people want to convert monos by adding 2 shocks, modern front ends and discs and ride them against modern bikes in modern trials. Their choice, up to them. None of my business. I don't care what individual clubs do around the country in terms of a twinshock class in their modern trials, or what bikes they allow to compete. If I turned up on my Ossa to a trial in another centre and found that converted monos were competing as twinshocks in the twinshock class, I'd think it a farce but I wouldn't go bleating to the organisers to get them kicked out. But on the flip side, if I came out as the winner of a twinshock class riding a 305 Fantic or Beta TR34 with 2 shocks, beating Ossas, Monts and Bults, it would feel a hollow victory with no merit in it - just my view. And where do you draw the line? Is it ok to put 2 shocks on a GasGas or 4RT? If not, why not, who says so, there are no rules to govern it.

But, there is a national championship for twinshocks, it's the only series we have for twinshocks in this country and it's the only twinshock class I care about. I'd hate to see it spoiled with hybrids edging out the genuine bikes once the 'who can build the ultimate twinshock' bandwagon got rolling. It's intention, years ago when it was introduced as the Sebac, was for people to be able to compete on their twinshock bikes that were by then obsolete and uncompetitive against the modern monos and the tight trick sections. It was a chance to get them out and ride them again on traditional type no-stop sections. That series evolved into the ACU Classic and the twinshock class has stayed true to that original ideal all through and although it now consists of more modern twinshocks, there are still a few Bults, Ossas and very occaisionally Monts competing. This is how it should be. Converted monos or bikes with discs aren't eligible for points in the championship, that's the ruling.

As far as twinshocks being tricked up and built to compete on ever tighter sections, where is this happening? I've yet to go to a classic/twinshock trial anywhere and find sections that are too tight. They certainly don't appear in the ACU Classic and a 70s twinshock with the right rider on it could have cleaned every section at last weekend's two classic rounds, no question. There are maybe half a dozen people on this forum who ride the ACU Classic and none of them have ever said the sections are too tight, so where has that come from?

To be honest, I'm fed up with the ongoing, pointless arguments/debates/discussion as to what is or isn't a twinshock. Everyone knows what they are, there is no grey area. Twinshocks ended in '85 with the odd exception - RTX and Jon Bliss' Cotswolds and Cotswold Majesties. None of these are trick bikes and they aren't any more competitive than the last of the factory produced twinshocks - which is why I wouldn't like to see pre85, as that excludes these bikes.

For the record, I think your Fantic is a very nice bike, looks well put together and is nicely finished. Just that in my opinion a converted mono is not a twinshock for obvious reasons, that's all - this is also the opnion of all the other regulars riding twinshocks in the ACU Classic.

And as for true twinshock enthusiast, yes I've ridden my bog standard 1974 Ossa MAR in the Loch Lomond 2 day, Lakes 2 day, numerous other modern trials and used it regularly in modern trials back in the 90s - as mentioned on one of the CJB end of the year round up videos from back then - so proof is there on VHS. Which is why it is so worn out now.... So I guess I qualify as a twinshock enthusiast but I also like enduros, some modern trials, some pre65 trials and classic scrambling.

I also like baking cakes dressed in red braces, black leather and pink flip-flops but that's for another forum

[2fargone]

Where would we be without rules ???????????

Where would we be if we had too many rules ??????????

and a fruit based drink for the ladies!!!

[pitley]

RIght Then, Lets Sort It Now.

Whos got some ideas on CLASSES for Twinshocks??

I got the Sections, you give me the cl;asses!!!

All i am trying is to get a good annual Twinshock meeting going.

Because we need to get our regs for this trial sorted out..

Thanks in advance

[woody]

All i am trying is to get a good annual Twinshock meeting going.

Because we need to get our regs for this trial sorted out..

Thanks in advance

And I really hope you do as it sounds like it will be a very good event and I really hope I can ride it.

Can't see anything wrong with your original idea with the year breaks if people would like to see their bike fit into a specific category. Hopefully people will be sensible about it and know which one their bike belongs in and there would be no arguments. As I said before, not something I'm bothered about though myself.

Personally, I'd do whatever causes you the least admin. If our club was running one, I would just keep it simple, run two routes and on each, have one class for twinshocks, one for pre65 and one for specials (or call it whatever) for anything outside of those two. Two routes covers any rider machine combination so there is no reason for people with really old twinshocks, or, lightly modified pre65 bikes to feel that their bikes won't be up to it just because there is no pre72 class or whatever. They can ride the easier route.

[old trials fanatic]

RIght Then, Lets Sort It Now.

Whos got some ideas on CLASSES for Twinshocks??

I got the Sections, you give me the cl;asses!!!

All i am trying is to get a good annual Twinshock meeting going.

Because we need to get our regs for this trial sorted out..

Thanks in advance

I think this could be a really important Trial that may hopefully influence the way that Twinshock events go in this country so heres my two pennorth.

Firstly two routes. Obviously No Stop rules. No disc brakes.

Classes.

Spanish Twinshock.

Other Twinshocks. (Armstrong, CCM, Cotswolds, Fantic, SWM, Majestys etc)

Specials. (highly modified bikes and any converted monos)

British Twinshock pre 70 (includes pre65)

British Twinshock Specials pre 70 (includes all tricked up pre65)

British bikes to use a carb of British manufacture otherwise to be classified in the specials class.

I agree with Woodie when he said keep it as simple as possible which is why for the first event i would not include cut off years. Less hassle for you and chance to see how it goes.

One thing that i would mention is remember to keep the sections as open as possible giving a choice of lines and remember you dont have to take marks off the best riders at every section just one or two will do or even as has been suggested before a special test? Graded hill climb? Longest Wheelie? Timed hill stop and restart? Well it's an idea.

Good luck Pitley if it goes well as i hope it does then it could set the tone for Twinshock events to come.

Good on yer

[pitley]

Thought there might be a few more with an intrest, but there you go.

OTF thanks for your input, all will be taken into consideration in the twinshock dept.

Not too concerned about brit carbs on brit twinshocks because as its been said a million times, 99.9 competitive brit trials bikes dont have brit fork internals so why bother with carbs..

Woody, less classes will probably be the best option, as we got two routes for the event.

Using the reverse formula as the classic experts, having the Twinshock class as the premire class.

Regs will be up together after our april club meet, so i will give you an up date

[ask greeves]

This is a new phenomena, trying to change a class to suit the bike, with sub classes and year breaks etc, and I think its all wrong. A twin shock is a twinshock, if you think your particular bike is uncompetitive, get a competitive twinshock. Trying to make sub classes creates extra work for already overworked secretaries of meetings and its not necessary. Maybe for some reason certain individuals have this urge to beat the system or just like to cause friction and conjecture. A twinshock should be within the spirit of the class, no disc brakes, no hydraulics. Keep it straightforward and look forward to big entries.

[pitley]

Thanks greeves, any comments welcome.

Just thought at the time of splitting the classes, say a rider with a 4 speed radial head bulto up against 240 pro, maj etc, would have a harder time of it in the same class.

But as you people put your ideas forward, then its possible to rectify the problems before we start.

And yes to a big entry if we can get the format right,then folk will want to return the next year.

As you say keep it twinshock.

[subanator]

I read this topic with interest, as I am contmplating mods for my TY175. This is due to low support for twinshock classes where I ride, and not non-stop rules.

So basically I compete on a course set for modern bikes, requiring stop turn, balance, squirt throttle riding - quite hard with old technology, just want it to perform more user friendly.

So where I am headed, to get more mid range punch by the way of mods, so that I can ride these courses comfortably.

I have even modded my Rev3 Beta 270 for better control, so this is bound to happen along the way to any bike.

I agree with keeping to the original frame, brakes, suspension etc.

Here is one bike that defies the twinshock catagory - Mick Andrews 1973 Yamaha TY250 OW10, its a monoshock! A Rare bike indeed, and not likely to turn up at any ride soon. Scroll down link below to view.

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=e...l%3Den%26sa%3DG

[scrumpyjack]

Hi subanator, uprating those skinny forks on your ty175 is a good place to start..!

I have some TY yolks that have been machined out to take 35mm marzochi forks,

and i have a mint set of forks to go with them,... and of course front wheel, with disc

and even the master cylinder .. all just ready to slot into your bike.

Then i would get the barrel ported a little... I have a ty175 and it goes great,, even pulling

my big frame up most obstacles... it has shocked a few people.

Scrumpy